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“I would definitely say prepare financially. I would say have some financial resources in place so that you don’t take the leap and then have to jump back into something because, you know, you just can’t afford financially to not have income. That can get you pulled right back into something that you know is not right for you.”
In Season 2, Episode 31 of the Boss Uncaged Podcast, S.A. Grant sits down with CEO & Founder of Flawed MasterpieceJoy White.
Flawed Masterpiece is an urban wellness and lifestyle brand centered on healing and emotional wellbeing
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Boss Uncaged Podcast Transcript

S2E30 – Joy White – powered by Happy Scribe

But over here, we are reporting. Audio’s good. All right, three, two, one. Welcome welcome back to Boss Uncage podcast. On today’s show, we have Joy White and I’m trying to figure out, like, the best way to give you guys a little sample of who she is. But to kind of just give you a little I’m a little her kind of, you know, bust a bubble in a little bit deeper. But she’s a lawyer by trade, right?

She’s also a mom of two different kids. Right. And in addition to that, she’s always been on this journey to follow success. And on that journey, there’s forks in the road. So she’s at that fork in the road now to where she’s jumping from being a full time lawyer into her next journey. So without further ado, Joy, why introduce yourself to our you?

Hey, everybody, so, yes, so Schnall or a grant, not sure what to so describe me well, I mean, I am all of those things in a lot of other things. So definitely CEO and founder of Masterpiece, new business venture that I just launched. Two days ago, also an attorney for a 16 year old mother of two boys, 16 and 13, and just a lot of other things, but that’s the high level. Gotcha.

So if you have to define yourself in three to five words, what would those three to five words be?

Three to five words, I would say. Kind of a balance between conformity and rebellion, and so that’s right, that’s right, ambitious. And. A strong tide of faith, so kind of really purpose driven, so that’s more than five, but. Yes, purpose driven, yes.

So let’s dove into this business model, because obviously, I mean, most people kind of understand the definition of what a lawyer is and obviously they understand there’s different segmentations of being a lawyer. So let’s start there. Like, what kind of lawyer were you? And then this jump into, like, what is this new business venture?

Got it. So civil employment attorney. So civil means not criminal. And so I primarily have done defense work with me representing the company, the employer. And so I’ve done that for 60 years. I’ve also done business litigation, Anitra, securities, commercial litigation. So essentially representing large companies and corporations and sometimes smaller employers. If this is in litigation, meaning they’ve been sued in court, there’s no criminal charges involved anywhere. So that’s what I’ve done for 60 years.

I’ve done that in a big law firm. I’ve done that in two small firms that I founded and helped manage. And I also did that at in a medium sized firm. Most recently, I was the V.P. of Legal Affairs and general counsel at Morehouse College. So I then I was doing that for the last four years.

So with everything that she just listed, you can kind of here like she’s the epitome of the corporate structure on one hand. Right. So I want you to pay attention to what she’s about to say about this other business unit, on the other hand. Well, that’s one I like. Less like the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde continue.

So the new business is called for M.D. And this is something that I’ve been thinking about for years. I would say probably in the last five years I’ve felt compelled to share my story. So that’s where this all started for my personal story, which is something that unless you are close to me, been in a relationship with me or kind of my family, you would have no idea what my personal story is. And it’s very different than kind of what I, you know, have shown kind of on my corporate side.

So I’ve been feeling compelled to share that story for the last few years. It’s a flawed masterpiece is the culmination of that. But the purpose is to empower other women. So it started with joy. Share your story. And then for me, that is important. And as part of my masterpiece, I do share my story. But the more important part is to empower other women and girls that can see themselves. In my story, I felt like my story is not this is not out there.

Like there’s no one who’s talking about this. And so what this is, is about accepting your flaws. It’s about things that you perceive to be flawed and or society. You can be flawed. So that can be mental health. That can be mental health diagnosis. That can be a history of abuse that can be coming from a single parent household. So you got race, class, gender. You got it all mixed up in there. If anything that is perceived to be less than that.

The flaw and then the masterpiece is essentially, you know, and I I guess talk about it later. But everybody is is amazing. Like everybody’s unique, everybody’s individual. There are no rules. And so part of this is based on my first 40 years on this earth, I lived according to rules that are bullshit, like there are no rules. And at some point you realize there are no there are rules. And so why don’t I show up authentically?

Why don’t I show up in my whole self, not in the 10 percent of myself that the world and my family and my religion deem as acceptable. There’s another 90 percent. And it’s about showing up in that way, expressing yourself, loving yourself, and then kind of living in your fulfill that that’s what flawed masterpiece is about and about seeing the beauty in it. Like it’s not acceptance in a hey, this is the fucked up shit, but let me accept that.

No, it’s like I am fucking dope, like I am amazing. That’s the point. A flawed masterpiece, because there’s a lot of stigma associated with a lot of the things that I’ve experienced in my life and even in the conversations where it’s about let’s get rid of the stigma, let’s minimize it. It’s still about let’s accept it. You know, like, hey, you know, I mean, this is unfortunate, but like. No, but bad like own it like own it.

Like superpower like I am. I have superpowers because until you fuck with yourself you can’t fuck with nobody else. Like that’s really what it is. And that’s what I learned in my life, is that these issues are way more critical than practicing law, which is amazing in the. An amazing accomplishment, and I’m proud of it, but that’s not the most important thing. So that’s what makes.

Please, I want you guys to understand, when I first met her, right, she was kind of like extremely tailored. Right. And I understand that she had like a little hood swag to her, but she kept the hood swag in a box, like in a cage. Right. So and over the years, it’s kind of like, you know, I was always like the cursor and like, fuck this and fuck that. And she was always kind of like, you need to tone it down a little bit.

And now she’s completely out the cage, Bosson Cage, and she’s completely just like, fuck it completely like, fuck it. So I want you to kind of break down, like, the name of what Florida stands for. You heard her as a lawyer. You want to say she knows what she’s doing, but you just saw her passion. It’s like, what is she passionate really about? So you go out and break down what Florida’s abbreviated for sure.

Self, what is an acronym. And so the F stands for that. L is let that shit go. A is except reality. W is Lussac, I think like Martin and bad boys like his ear. So w e is embrace healing and this and B is the book. So that’s, that’s the acronym and it’s, it’s, I can explain what each of those me for the most part it’s kind of self-explanatory, but it’s also a process. So it is kind of f is like fuck society, fuck culture, fuck you family, fuck whoever, whoever, whatever makes you feel less than and fuck you making yourself feel less bad about that too.

So it’s really about a process to all of those things. So that’s what that’s about, you know. And then l and this is big L is let that shit go. And for me that means let go of what you thought your life was supposed to be like, like let it go like. So a lot of people like oh I understand. Feel it, that’s what it means and what it means once to have said fuck that to whomever, whatever.

However, then it let go of whatever you thought it was supposed to be because, you know, I’ll share some of my story later, but my life did not go according to plan, despite all the many accomplishments and all the wonderful things that I had. But it still didn’t go according to plan. And part of this process is releasing that, like releasing your attachment to this is what my life was supposed to be like, like let it go, because you really can’t get to living your love life until you let go of whatever life you thought you were supposed to be live in.

And so that’s what let that shit go a is a reality for me. What that reality is, look in the mirror like look in the mirror and look at yourself. Who are you really? What is your real life? What’s your life you thought you were going to have. But what is your life? Because for part of me, I denied a lot of things in my self. So it wasn’t even so much about hiding it from other people.

It was more about me denying it and just, hey, I don’t know who that person is over there. That ain’t me. I’m this person. And so it’s kind of like except reality like except. It, which isn’t necessarily bad, it could be some bad shit. It could be bad, but that’s not really the point. The point is just be real, like just with yourself. What is your life then? W is with that.

And so for me, is all these mindfulness meditation, reflection, journaling going out in nature really is going to be different things for different people, but it’s really about getting present and not president to accept reality. The slow down. Like, I just have a mindfulness meditation probably five years ago and it has completely changed my life. And I am a person of faith. I’m a Christian. I have grown up in the church and I don’t denounce that in any way.

I still have all of those views that I feel. But there was some other shit that I needed to kind of I need some other tools in the kit and I didn’t have them. And so for me, mindfulness meditation, self care, journaling, boundaries, like it’s the whole kit and caboodle. You need that shit, like you need that. That is something separate and apart, in my opinion, from religion and your religious belief. Yes, separate.

Getting kind of in touch with things, building your mind when I had a kind of silent the talk, the chatter in your mind, but that’s the small version. So that’s what loses all that stuff. And then embrace healing is a big one. And again, this is a process. So you have already said, fuck that, you’ve let it go. Hey, this ain’t my life. You the reality. This is my life. Now, you have done meditation, journaling, you’ve lost the nature.

You’re planting flowers, do whatever you an art color and drawing whatever you need to do. And then you get to E and E is embrace healing and feels like really healing. And so everybody, you know, people have different experiences in their life. Everyone no one is immune from life happening now, there are some things and you know, and again, when I say trauma for me, I it’s definitely tied to my own trauma. So I am not professing to understand every type of trauma that can exist in the world.

And I can appreciate that my trauma had to do with mental health, with surviving physical abuse, sexual abuse, absence of the father, classism, misogyny. I mean, I’ve had it all. And for me, I never feel I could have rejected it because again, if you don’t accept reality, heal anything, you won’t confront. And so that’s why I got accepted back there and then get quiet and be still something you can move to healing and healing.

You can do self healing depending on what you got going on therapy, coach. I mean, to me, I depend on the severity of the trauma. I recommend some professional helping with that, some kind of like a professional, because for me, I didn’t deal with those things and those things showed up. And so, you know, if you don’t deal with Edgett, I talk about it. It’s like mold’s or something. Like you might not see it at first, but by the time you do see it, it’s a problem and it can kill you like literally like it’s that powerful.

And until you confront it and deal with it, you will never live your best life. That’s the reason I say embrace, because healing is a journey you’ll never be healed with an easy. It is a process that, frankly, will go on your entire life, but you got to at least be willing to start the process. And so that’s why the church has embraced it, because it’s like just be open to it instead of what I was in, which I was not open to it.

And they don’t want you to at started the process and you have fucked culture and society. You have let go of your imaginary life that you thought you were going to have. You accepted your real life. You learned how to you know, whether, you know, jonel reflect introspection. Now you have embraced healing and you’re on the healing journey. Then you get the disease which is dealt with. And the point I just like the term dope in general, but it’s really about like I am dealt with.

But like Schnall will tell you how I am, most people agree I’m making no, but like I have always been dealt with that and a lot of other people that struggle with some of these issues. So have they like like everybody in their own right is dealt with like anyway, like everyone’s unique, everyone’s the individual, everyone’s valuable in whatever whatever they have to offer the world. And Delta Force is really about walking in that walking your full authority of who you are in all its texture and color, that that’s what does like it’s own it own your your doneness in its totality.

So that’s what so I mean, I think you alluded to a couple of different things. And one thing I want to bring up is, like you’re saying, you have so many different bad experiences and you found a way to turn those bad experiences into positive outcomes. So what was the worst experience you’ve encountered on your journey to creating this new business?

Good question. I will tell you, and on my journey to creating this new business, the hardest thing was finally getting support for the vision. You know what? This business is kind of a it’s not just a hybrid hybrid. It’s like three different things that coaching kind of in the personal development phase, it is event. So, again, wellness events and seminars and things of that nature and in its product, those wellness products that promote self care.

So, hey, when you’re doing the Lussac stuff and you’re embracing healing, what are the different products that you can use during that price? Candles, then aromatherapy journals like things that are kind of support you in that process. So those are three different things, like three different markets, so to speak, against. And I’ll tell you, my background is is black as an attorney. So I went straight through school, but I’ve never done anything but practice law.

Ever, and so the process of saying, hey, this is this vision that I have, I want to bring it for OK, but I don’t know how to do any of this. Like, I don’t know how to do the work product. I don’t know how to plan events. I do know how to mentor and support women and coach women. So that is something I have always been passionate about. OK, turn that into a business like coaching as a business, three different areas that I don’t have any experience and event planning in the product and not formal kind of this is my way that I’m going to make money in terms of the coaching.

And so trying to find help, frankly, and people to see the vision and help me execute the different pieces was very hard because I got a lot of pushback. Like, you can’t do that like three different markets that, you know, market sectors and target. I’m like, oh, I know my target audience is like, I know who that person is because it’s me and nobody’s talking to me in all of who I am. People talk to me as an attorney.

They may talk to me as a trauma survivor and they talk to me as a Christian, but nobody’s talking to all of me. And so part of what I wanted to offer to the culture is, hey, person who has this myriad of things going on that don’t fit into a box. I want to talk to you. I want to I want to serve you. I want to serve you in coaching. I want to offer, you know, which creates an environment that speaks to all of you is support all of you and have you in like minded environments with other people who are all of these things and then have products that you will really value and appreciate and that will kind of enhance your quality of life.

So I’m very clear on what I wanted to do. But when I took that to let me find a coach, let me find a mentor, let me find somebody to help me brand messaging, marketing. I got a lot of pushback and I thought it was very hard to and really still have a lot of pushback with people like this is how I can support you walking through this whole process. So that was hard because I’ve never. I mean, it’s terrible.

I’ve never had to rely on anybody for anything to execute, like, so I’m a big that’s a hard target. People like I win right there always have. And this was hard to hit the goal because I did not want to limit my vision to what I already knew how to do, because they’re small, that’s living small, but trying to execute on the vision when you need other people to believe in your vision because you just don’t know how to do it.

Like, I don’t know how to make a product. I don’t know how to plan events. That is actually I have a vision and bring it forward. But people were not I won’t say not supportive, they just didn’t see the vision. So people I think a lot of people were supportive and like, I will help you, but you need to do this. Like your background is a lawyer. You’ve done all these things. Leverage that like that’s what you need to leverage.

I’m like, yeah, I mean, I get that. And that’s kind of a that’s a part that a lot of people take, you know, hey, I’m a lawyer. I want to pivot into coaching how each other I was included in what you know, I’m sure I will offer. But what I’m passionate about is that woman or young woman, mid career woman that has never had permission or felt that she had permission to show all the way up or the woman who has trauma that she has never dealt with.

And she thought, hey, I can outrun this shit with accomplishments. Like as long as I say like a hundred miles ahead of this, it’ll never catch up. And then if it catches up, but act silly, trying to execute tangible pieces, segments of this business to bring it forward, you know, you need people to help you with those things. And that was not I didn’t get a lot of support and that, again, I supported.

Hey, Jack, you in the business fine. But you can do all three of these things at once. You get this. These are three different businesses. You can’t launch great businesses. I’m like, oh, I can live. It’ll be one business, one target audience, three offerings to that audience. That makes sense to me. And that’s what the hell Bob Massie’s is. But. It was it was hard to have someone help me bring it to market because I didn’t really have that support.

So I think it is ironic. I mean, we’ve known each other for about ten plus years at this point. And hearing you tell that story, part of that story is, is my story. Like, I’ve had multiple different coaches and all the coaches told me to streamline my process, to select one thing. And anybody that knows, like my career wise, I’ve jumped into being there every expertize known to be a man. Right. And I’ve juggled all of them at the same time.

So I hear where you’re coming from. So in that right. Like my question for you is understanding that you want to launch these three businesses. Right. You need help growing them. And, you know, obviously, I have an agency that can support that. So my question right right now live is, are you willing are you willing to dedicate the time is going to take because one business may take one to five year. So you need to multiply that by three different businesses and then factoring all of them into one fund.

Right. A prime example is like I have my salary, three sixty and that’s marketing I have and paid, which is more so entrepreneurial giving back. And I have my say grant, which is more consultant, but I had to separate these brands and then find uniformity individual of them. And each one of them talks to a different audience with the keystone between all three is myself. Does that mean. So for you to step out from being a lawyer and stepping into the space of an influencer, you’re going to have to like it’s going to be a long road on a treadmill and you’re going to give you a water bottle.

I can give you some fruit snacks on the way, but you have to keep running like there’s no stopping once you get on this path. So my question is, are you willing to do that?

Of course. So, yes, I am willing to do that. But I do want to offer something, you know, in the rules that say this is also about mindset. So there is there is a part of that that is about limiting belief. And that is something that I discovered and it transformed my life. And I bring that up because I honestly believe and this is just me, you can do whatever the fuck you want to do once you decide to do it.

And I’m I do I have to think I want to do it like that the other day. And it’s not to reject advice. But here’s the thing. I’ve done it. I’ve done amazingly. I’ve done things in my life that a person who’s had some of the experiences I’ve had shouldn’t be able to do. Like, there’s a lot of people that that way there. And so when I think about the energy, the time, the effort, the grind, the hustle that I had put in to get up to this point, only for that to be 10 to 15 percent of who I am as a whole, definitely prepared to put in the work.

I’ve done nothing but do that in my life. So that’s I mean, that’s just kind of how I’m built anyway. But but. Something I want to offer, I guess, is that I did not discover that there was this world of, you know, not blinding actually like people making tons and tons of money and living the life they believe, you know, and helping tons of people. And it’s not tied to one hundred hours. You know, all this craziness.

Like, I remember when I first left and I was shocked that people were doing stuff at five p.m. in the day. I’m like, who are all these people out live and live at five? Because I was working until 1:00 o’clock in the morning, two o’clock in the morning, 3:00 in the morning. That’s all I have ever known. And as a as a professional, as a mother, as a and so part of my kind of what I want to offer in my business and kind of at least a different message is no, the you don’t have to do all that, which you have to decide that you don’t want to do all that.

Like, I want to present options, like you can do what you want, how you want. You have to work no matter what. You have to be passionate and dedicated no matter what. But this idea that if I take all these hours, all these years, all of this, I reject that. Like, I actually reject that because that actually contributed to a lot of my suffering. And had I known that there there’s a whole world of people that don’t do that, like a whole new world of people that do not, you know, define themselves by how many hours they work or how long it takes them to get to.

You know, there’s just a different world. And I believe you can just decide to do that. I strongly believe you can just decide and then you work towards it, but you work towards it in a way that is like I believe this is possible and it is possible because I believe it’s possible and I’m going to do it. I, I use that kind of energy before in a box, like in a space that was defined for me. So I’ve always had that attitude.

It’s just it was not an expansive view and it wasn’t authentic to me. And so now it take that same attitude that you always had and apply it to this new business and this idea that Brian culture cancel. Black women are superheroes. Black women can be single moms and doctors and lawyers. And, you know, they can wear the pink and everything fine and they can do all that. And no, but that no, because that is that’s the fuck that that’s the first part of that, because they’re suffering there.

For me there was. But I didn’t feel that I even I didn’t have time to deal with that suffering because I had to keep going, though, for my unique story. That is part of why I kind of push back when when people are like, hey, you know, you got to be I’m like, I already did that. Like, I did that version. And I will continue to do it, like but in something that so actually serves me and serves my wellbeing, it takes into account of the holistic.

Truth of who I am, and I don’t think. It gives me any list, like I don’t kind of receive the hey, you know, you got to go back to the beginning, which was a lot of feedback. I got be like, hey, you know, your quickest way to go to market is use for your degree, like use your clout that you already have and use that to, which makes sense. No question. And by the way, I feel prices lost, so I’m not giving up my degree and I’m choosing to serve people that I want to serve as plaintiff’s employment work.

Now representing employees after spending 16 years representing big corporate employer, I’m now like, I’m going to represent who I want to represent and support that. So that’s just kind of a switch. But I just want people to believe, especially people who have felt less than are unworthy. I just want them to believe there is no path to what they want to do, how they want to do it, and that you also don’t have to grind. And that’s tricky when I say you don’t have to grind.

And I know that’ll be misconstrued, but that’s coming from a pipe, a person that’s coming from someone who’s like, hey, I got to work 300 hours I to work 200 hours and I’ll get no sleep. I’ll get nothing like that. So that’s coming from a person who’s lived their life like it. Certainly if you are a person that, you know, sleeps a lot and rest and try to relax and maybe you need to get something yourself.

So this is relative to my kind of world view, but I need to take it back a notch in terms of the grind, but up a notch, I guess, in terms of what is available to me and who I’m able to serve and not, you know, kind of not limited because that’s where you come back to the these are three different businesses. This is the person I want to serve. Like, there’s a person, there’s a persona, so to speak, that I want to serve and I want to try to serve that person in totality now like that, you know, piecemeal, I want because I feel like I want to be the person that I needed 10 years ago.

I needed to see some visual of something or at least the action that, hey, you can take care of yourself. Meaning healing and all that and live a badass life, make lots of money. The you can do all those things. And in. No, that that’s available to you as an option to set as a goal and then shoot for that. That’s what I want to offer. And so that’s my resistance ballots then take five or six years because I needed this person 10 years ago and I don’t see any body out here.

Is apathy that hostile to this person? Again, that is the intersectionality of a lot of different stuff.

Yes, I think it could definitely happen. And it comes down to compounding. And I’m going to tell you a little story about it was that with my networking group and his name was Eric Decker. Right. And he had a video company and he was like maybe having twenty two. He was very young being in a network. So he was going to network meetings and trying to get deals and close deals. And he was running pretty successful video company.

But in his heart he wanted to be a YouTube right. Which is kind of different than editing videos. So he then decided exactly, roughly about one year in a month ago, said fuck everything to your point. That’s right. And then he became a YouTube one year later. Now he has one million subscribers. So anybody that’s a YouTube move would understand. Like to get to one million subscribers. That’s not an easy damn thing. I’ve seen a a million that are like.

Fifty thousand. Ten thousand subscribers him, to get to your point, it could be done, but also that he put into it and I’m just watching this video like the way he feels, the stories that he told. I mean, this dude drop a damn yacht in someone’s pool like shit like that. Like he went across state lines on a skateboard from California to Nevada on video. So he went to the extreme and worked to build up a following.

So if you’re going to go into that space work I’m talking about, you’re going to have to one. And I know you’re not going to want to hear because you’re I personally, I understand that. But you’re going to have to be coachable in the experience to get the information delivered to that audience as seamless as possible with the less resistance as possible. So, you know, you don’t want talk about being a lawyer. Fuck that. Don’t talk about being a lawyer.

Whatever you’re going to do on the visual side, you’re going to go ten times into that space to deliver that message, to grow that audience really quickly.

So I understand. Yes, I do. All right, I see that you see that. So dove into the next question. I mean, obviously, you’re a lawyer, so you understand the legalities of things behind the scenes, like how is the business structured? Are you like LLC, EZCORP, C Corp?

Mm hmm. Yes, I am LLC and then doing business that so. And the reason it kind of goes to your point, I envision that there could be a world where they do have the breakout, like the the event from the coaching from the private. So I understand that. And so it is an LLC and right now the whole business is a DBA at Fraud Maccabees. And all of these kind of lines of markets are under board masterpiece. But I created it that way so that if I need to create a disk at some point, a different brand name deba for the product versus the event versus the services and the personal coaching and development.

That that’s why I set it up that way, so you had the flexibility to run all of the businesses if they show up all under one business. Now, I also still have my law firm that has to be a separate entity. So it is also an LLC. But law firms cannot share or kind of be in a business venture where there are non legal services provided. So I have to LLC one for my legal practice and then one for kind of all other things.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

So, Mark, I know you’ve been on your journey for a while and we’ve always perceived someone’s success as an overnight success. But really behind the scenes, it takes 20, ten, five years. There’s a period of time that that takes somebody to get to that point. How long did it take you to get to where you are currently?

I mean, I’ve been practicing law for 16 years. This is my current venture, flawed masterpiece. I have been working on that formerly working on June 20 20. So six months, six, seven months now, I felt cold and compelled to share my story. Five years ago, it actually took me until June 20, 20 to be willing to do it. So I was very resistant to being fully transparent and fully authentic. It kind of once I decided like, all right, it’s time.

June 20 20, Still Life Business, January 31, 20, 21.

So on that journey, what’s one thing that you would want to do differently if you could do it all over again?

I would have wanted to be more. I get more focused on getting the right people on the team, like, you know, and this is tricky, getting the right people. So if I talk to one person and they don’t see the vision, OK, this is the wrong person, not the vision. Is that what the vision needs to be, though? It’s probably being more committed and dedicated to finding the right people. Like my vision is my vision.

Now, being coachable is different, and I agree with that. You try to give me take my vision, not open to that. And so what happened is when I got pushback from certain people, I was like, fuck it, I’m launching this business and I’m proud of what I believe and I will grow and evolve. But I think if I could have done something different, I probably would have felt it, you know, given myself more time to find people that were experts in messaging expert and product expert and whatever that bought into the vision.

So it’s not about changing the vision because the vision is the vision, because I feel like I gave my vision. But just being more committed and dedicated to trying to find people and just keep going, hey, you’re the wrong person. Hey, let me interview yet you’re the wrong person, too, because I will tell you my visual perfect example for the brand. That person that her name is Matt Taylor. Amazing. I was able to articulate my vision and she got it.

And that’s what the visuals are that are on the page of my my website that I mid-band like that. That is what I wanted to show. And I have a Spotify playlist, my brand logo. Like I was able to articulate my vision to create those very interesting, the people that have creative backgrounds, which again, I don’t come from that world, I come from LA. But the creatives get it, like when I articulated, hey, this is what it sounds like, this is what it feels like, what it looks like.

You know, they got it in my with my logo looks it it shows and demonstrates what I meant for it to show my, like I said, my visual, my pictures that are very powerful. I believe they show what I meant for them to show and where I got stuck with the messaging and the kind the you know, I don’t know, like do people like products, event planning. That’s where I. Definitely didn’t know how to do it myself and was not able to find people that that got it because like I said, for the visual, the logo, all that they got is they’re like, yes, I understand.

It makes perfect sense. This is exciting. But, you know, trying to find folks that. To execute, because, again, I’m all about execution as much as I am about vision and passion. And so the execution is hard when your vision is bigger than your skill set, your your personal skill set.

And me and I look over your website and to your point, I mean, definitely I think the images definitely stand out. And to your point, the one thing that you’re missing is copy. It’s like wrong copy. You depict the visuals because again, when you’re thinking about search engines, you’re thinking about the technical, you’re talking about algorithms behind the scenes. A lot of them are not reading images. They’re reading the content on supporting the images. What’s the story behind the images?

What do people right. Where are they landing afterwards? So I think that’s something that definitely in your next phase of this, working on messaging will definitely do so. So this is go a little bit back into your entrepreneurial background. So I’ve had an opportunity to meet your mom and I can see that she’s Azi personality, right? She has she has a vision of how she wants things to be done. And obviously that’s carried over to you. Right.

So are you from an entrepreneurial background like besides from your mom being a personality? Where are you going?

Well, that’s a good question. So, no, I am not from an entrepreneurial background at all. So everyone in my family is, you know, professional, you know? Well, no, I’m not going to say this, but no entrepreneur. I am the first. And I have a cousin who is an entrepreneur. Now, I’ll tell you this. It could be easy for my dad. Right? So I did not seen a lot of time with my dad growing up, but he was an entrepreneur.

And so, you know, there’s this whole world nature versus nurture, all that. But I think perhaps that that kind of in me. But it was definitely not something that was anywhere. It was never presented to me. So I never saw any entrepreneur ever, just like I never saw any lawyers. So I decided to be a lawyer before I knew a lawyer did. And I decided to be an entrepreneur before I knew any entrepreneur. So, yes, that’s bad.

Got you.

So talking about your friend a little bit know you talked about you have two kids, one 16 and one 13. Right. And for the longest, as long as I know you’ve been a single mom. So my question is how to how do you juggle your work life with your your family life? I mean, like like how how you do that?

It goes to what I was saying earlier, I guess, about mindset. And, you know, let me use some of this superpower shit that I clearly have towards you, should I want to do, because honestly, I don’t know how like I’m 40 now. I’m going to be one. And when I look back over their lifespan and kind of my career up to this moment, I have no idea how I do those things. I mean, so, yes, I’ve been a single mom the entirety of my time.

I was there for two years to my youngest son, Dad. So my boys have different dads. And so the whole time I was married for two years total, I had my oldest then my third year of law school. And so my career track kind of track is eight. So I have never been a professional and not been a single mother. So it’s all seamless. It kind of is just right there together. So I’m that known adulthood without kids.

I have it no matter. My career went without kids, so it’s kind of that’s all I’ve ever known. I think it’s my drive that pushed me to just you know, there are some unhealthy things about that. But I think maybe my drive in my kind of ambition, like I’m kind to be an ambitious and kind of driven person. And then I have kids and I have a vision of who I want to be as a mother. And these are I do to shit like this, you know.

So I never really tittered other options, which for the record, is part of my message. Part of my message now is, hey, there are other damn options like that that I would say majority because it’s my journey. But there’s consequences to pushing yourself that hard. And they show up in a lot of different ways, though. It’s on the one hand, I don’t want to demonize my journey because it is my journey and I’m proud of what I have accomplished.

But there are a lot of things when you’re focused on your career at the highest level and you’re focusing on parenting at the highest level relationship, clearly that you know. So that’s a problem. I don’t know. Well, but here’s the thing. Relationships with others, but also relationship with yourself, which is, again, expensive and only discovered recently. And that’s why I feel so driven to share that message. Like how you feel matters a lot and you don’t develop it necessarily when it’s all kids, all work.

Those are the only two relevant because you ain’t in there. You are nowhere in the, you know, half amigos here. Half of me goes there. That’s how I got here. And that’s part of what I’m trying to dispel is, hey, there’s other ways I’m determined that there will be other ways to reach success that don’t equate to kind of sacrificing your own well-being.

So on that journey, so it seems like you’re coming to awareness of like this time and understanding your time management. And on one hand, you were just completely if this twenty four hours of the day, you’re going to try to figure out how can I squeeze twenty five hours out of one day? So what is your morning habits and your morning routines look like?

That’s a good question. Yes, that’s a good question. So my morning routine that has evolved over time is I spend an hour in the morning, I get up, I read a devotion in the little Bible and I read a few scriptures and a devotion. Then I do. I meditate. And so sometimes I do a guided meditation. Sometimes I do kind of guided like visualization, which is different than meditation, but always something that involves getting thinner and kind of in tune with my inner self.

I do that. Then I journal, I do a gratitude journal and I that’s kind of the definite like every single day I do that. And then after that it varies. Usually I spend about 30 minute planning my day, so I get up at five o’clock in the morning every day. So it’s probably like an hour and a half practice every day. And it’s critical for me, like I realized, like, I need that before the day starts and before the kids are up and before it’s time to work.

I need that dedicated time to kind of feel my felt my spirit, connect with God, connect with my cell and plan for the day.

So, I mean, it’s funny that you brought up things that you’re reading. So every time, like my questions, you say that I have a question. I’ve stage my questions to kind of like tell a story. Right. So as the story was progressing over the past episodes, I realized that, like you, a lot of people wake up early like you. A lot of people either are meditating, working out. In addition to that, they’re always reading or absorbing some kind of content, some kind of information.

So because of that, I decided to create a Boston College book club. So what book have you read to help you on your journey? And would you recommend those books in addition to what books are you reading currently right now?

Got it. So book that I have read on the journey, if the Game If An Imperfection by Barney Brown. Huge, huge, huge, huge. Especially for people who have issues with self worth. And even if you don’t think you have issues with self worth. So it’s really if you identify with being a perfectionist, then I would recommend that book I read. I started reading that book three different times and every time I would get to something that was so piercing through it, like I literally through the book, I’m like, I don’t have time finish it.

Like literally I was like, I see it. I’ll have time for this year. Right now I got a big dinner and I mean, I had this book and it’s not even that big. It took me probably two years to actually read it and actually go through it because it was the beginning of my awakening. I would say my self awareness about my trauma and how it is showing up in ways that I didn’t think were trauma based. I’m like, I am fine.

And they read something that sounds like it’s like a narrative of your life, you know, about trying to, you know, outhustle stuff and kind of achieve and perfect. Because really, for me, underneath that, it’s some self worth issues that you’re trying to start your accomplishments and your accolades on top of it. So, Rene Brown, all of her stuff is great, but gives of imperfection is one of them. Also, you are a bad ass.

I guess Mesereau is a big one. Subtle art of not giving up something and all of those. So, you know, Bernie Brown was about kind of the healing and the trauma and stuff that I. Really hadn’t dealt with, but still are not giving up, just as they are of those kind of four hour workweek, those are books that, again, put something in my purview that I did not know about, like a whole world of stuff and ideas in perspective that were nowhere in my life mindset issues and just those kind of in the self-help space.

But about, you know, just, you know, you can do whatever you want, just decide you wanted things that I had applied in my life already. Just didn’t understand that this was a whole way of thinking in a whole way of approaching life coming up, being raised their villages and type a career, religion, family back. Kind of the world that I know, and I’m southern, southern, born and raised adults only ever lived in the South, so I had a very narrow view of just all kinds of things.

So those books were great and kind of taking me along the journey of kind of an awakening and currently reading. I just finished it, but I just appreciate it. Unchanged by Glenn and Doyle. Love, love, love, love. The book highly recommended. It’s the you know, she’s written a lot of books that she is like, I don’t give a fuck when she does, but that’s not the point. But it I’ma be me, Amadeu, me, like, and she kind of talked about the consequences of not doing you.

And it’s fictional ish, but it’s great. I love it. I highly recommend it. And then this other book I had, I have it here because I forget the name of the Warrior Goddess training and which is not really my you wouldn’t normally think I would be like warrior got it. But it’s warrior. God is training in it by Heather Ash Amara and is about becoming the woman you’re meant to be. And again, these are things that have a lot to do with owning yourself and understanding where you separate it from yourself.

Like how? Like the origins of how to you get to this place where you are not your essence, like who you are and your essence if you are living this other life. So it’s a book about that book.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that’s a long list of insightful books. And I think each book represents the phases of where you were, where you are and where you’re going. So that leads me to my next question is like, OK, on this journey, right? We’re stepping forward. We’re present now. Are we going to step to the future? Where do you see yourself in 20 years?

20 years, 20 years, I will definitely be a billionaire, I would be a philanthropist, I’ll be a philanthropist, I will be serving women, I will be serving. And it will be in any number of ways that I want to offer a lot of financial resources to underserved communities. But women, minorities, both with trauma, both with mental health issues, single mothers. So kind of folks that kind of fall in buckets that I have that I self identify with, I.

It’s tricky because I think I’m going to it’s going to evolve so much from this point that I’m trying to remain open to what that what shape it takes. I kind of see flawed M.P. as the beginning of my me like my like me showing up as me and then bringing all my ambition and my drive, my intellect, my all of it to something that I feel very kind of purpose to do and how I serve the community. But I’m gonna make a lot of money.

But I’m a hell of a lot of people.

Yeah, I just want to commend you for a good I mean, I’ve had this conversation on both sides of the coin and have I’ve answer that question and I’ve said similar things to what you said, like like becoming a billionaire is an objective. Right. So I have to say, first of all, I want to commend you for having the balls and the audacity to say a billionaire, not a millionaire, not a multimillionaire, but a damn billionaire.

And I want people to understand that there’s a huge difference of mentality when you’re at 100000 versus a million versus ten million hundred million and a billionaire and a completely different intellectual standpoint, not just from education wise, but just understanding how to manage and operate. A billion dollars completely changed the game. So. What who do you use currently right now in the plethora of things that you’re doing that you would not be able to do without?

Outlook, so, I mean, I live by my calendar between two businesses and trying to take care of myself, like for myself, my two kids outlook seriously is I live by it. If it’s not in there, it’s not real. I don’t care if we had a conversation. I’m not going to remember it as soon as I tell you I’m going to quit meeting. And because, again, I’d do that like I was in a meeting about like for like anything like, oh, that’s all I know.

I’m like, listen, if you want me to do it and remember to do it, then you’ve got to be on the calendar. So calendar is big. That’s probably the biggest fool. I mean, I am learning now the different tools that in this new business. So Trello just discovered that I have never been big. I’ve never been a project management. And I realized that like I am result oriented, but I’m that process oriented. And I didn’t know that till now because I’m there.

Like, what? The target. Get the target. Get there however you get there. If you ask me to do it again, I don’t know how till I got here. I don’t know. Did you pay this. I don’t know. Like I can never redo that. So discovering that it’s been great. And then on the law firm bad practice management that you know, that I like things that allow you to have like a paperless office, all that kind of stuff, because there’s a lot of paper in life and just there’s a lot of paper and running businesses.

So kind of cloud based that the words like one drive and, you know, I cloud those kind of things that allow you kind of manager your documents without having all the paper. I would say.

So I want you to think for a second and I want you to talk to, let’s say, male or female. Early 30s to mid 40s, they’re in corporate America. They’ve had successful careers, much like you’ve have. They’ve hit all the check boxes. They’ve lived the white picket fence lifestyle. And now they’re like, fucking I want to burn down everything and I want to step into this new world of who I am. I’m tired of the regime.

I’m tired of the man power to the people. What words of wisdom would you give them to motivate them to continue to move?

I would say definitely prepare for it with a caveat, though, first and foremost, prepare financially. So I have savings, have some one way, especially if you’re trying to do something like me. Like where I don’t even know how to do this, but I just know that’s what I want to do. And I’m sick of it. I would say have some financial resources in place so that you don’t take the lead and then have to jump back into something because, you know, you just can’t afford financially to not have income that can get you pulled right back in to something that you know is not right for you.

But life is like there are just practical realities, especially if you’re a parent. There’s just are you can’t do that. So I would say that now the caveat to that would be if you’re suffering and I believe that, like, if you are suffering now, I don’t like my job, but if you are in a toxic environment, if you are by I mean in Pasig is relative to everyone else. But whatever you define as fact, if you are in a toxic environment, I would leave, just leave, because the long term consequences of the longer you stay.

And in fact, if I get this boat, you’re in there breathing in mold every day. And it takes a lot to, you know, clean your lungs after you’ve been breathing in darkness for for a long time. So I would say I make it caveat because there’s tons of people that won’t take the leak and they they minimize the impact of being in unhealthy environments and situations. So I would try to find mentor. And again, this is what I hope to be.

I hope to be an example of someone who left at the height of their career. I mean, I’m vice president of legal affairs, general counsel. I manage the board of trustees at Morehouse. I’m dealing with I mean, I’ve done nothing but a straight upward shot in terms of my legal career, but I hope to be an example of the success you can have when you choose to do and you take off all your talent and all of that and apply it to something that is really in sync with you.

Because the point is, I don’t I don’t see any examples of that. That’s part of the reason why I want to do this. Meaning you’re here. You’re at a point where why would you leave? Like, why would you like you read every piece of advice I want to be an example of. But you know what? Me being happy and being whole and being authentic is it’s not that it’s more important. It is more important. But you can still be successful.

It’s not an either or. If not, if you want to be you, then. You know, you don’t struggle or be successful and be inauthentic. I want to kind of be an example and allow people to see my journey as part of the reason why I decided to kind of be more open up front, even though I haven’t I don’t have a messaging person yet. I need one, by the way. I need a messaging partner. But I was willing to still step out there because I actually want people to see the raw process, like the real journey of doing this, but also kind of inspire them when I blow all the way up.

And this is just the big thing, it’s like, oh, but I just watched her do it. She didn’t know exactly, but she believed in this. She was passionate about it. And so that I would tell them, just look at me, follow me on this path, because I haven’t seen a lot of examples of that. So I would say don’t be homeless if you can avoid it by having money saved and being able to have somewhat of a runway.

And hopefully I can be an example of that. And that’s my desire.

I think you definitely have an influence or state of mind because that influence or you’re telling a story what you want people to come along with that journey with you. So some of your things may be missing content and some of it may not be a little bit as edgy as you want it to be. But as you progressed, as you systematize your things, then you go from being kind of starting out to being the full blown influencer with hundreds, if not millions of followers.

But they can kind of go back and see where you started to understand that you can start off with perfection, that you had to go on the journey to get there. So this is a time for you to kind of like tell people how to begin to contact you. What’s your email address, your Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, your website? What’s the list of things and how could they get to contact you?

Got it. So everything is flawed masterpiece by joy in terms of social media. So Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, that five massive bijoy and the website is flawed massively. So it’s massively. I have a Pinterest. I have a spot of. I really. So those are both well thought. Masterpiece is decided by the playlist is called Blog Masterpiece and the Pinterest is full of empathy. Bijoy And so those are all of my kind of masterpieces on Instagram.

I’m at Joy White. So my personal Instagram is Ajoy White and so certainly can follow me there just to kind of keep up with what I’m doing as a person. But flawed Master P Bijoy is all social media and then the website for Masterpiece.

So roll that into the bonus round. And I always make this a public announcement that I always had this question to everyone because everyone’s going to have a uniquely different answer. And I have a feeling that yours is probably going to be completely I have no clue what you answer. Right. So I really don’t it’s kind of a flip of a coin. So if you could spend twenty four hours with anyone dead or alive, who would it be and why?

Oprah. And it would be Oprah, maybe not for the reasons other people who want to take it with Oprah. For me, Oprah is if there is anyone that I would say would be an example of kind of where I’m trying to head, but with a different angle, it would be her. She started as a very challenging childhood, very, very, very challenging thing to experience in her life, abuse and abandonment and kind of heavy stuff that a lot of people.

You know, hunting for their lot from life and she’s gotten to where she’s gotten and and she’s now definitely doing it in a way that is this is who I am. This is what I want to do. So she went from kind of this tough upbringing to have reached success, you know, with her show and kind of corporate America and all that stuff. But then her next level is this is who I am. This is what I believe.

You know, she’s very insecure. Duality there is helping people who she wants to help, who she feels inspired to help, you know. So if there is a role model, I would say for me, given what I’m trying to do, I would say it would be Oprah, because you don’t see a lot of examples of people starting with where her origin story and landing where she’s landed. But not it’s not just the superficiality of where she’s landed.

It’s the leg, the journey to reaching this level of success where you are serving tons of people. But it’s about what’s authentic to you and doing it in a way that is in alignment with your values and your inner self, because she’s all about that. Those are things that I didn’t know about, like I hadn’t been exposed to that world. So she and she came up in the Baptist Church, all that stuff. So she has a similar kind of story that she’s Oprah.

And I envision myself as. Maybe a Edir, rackety loyalty, Oprah.

So I think I’m happy you brought up Oprah, because Oprah is one of the people that obviously as a male, I’ve studied from a female standpoint. And, you know, my first book, I wrote an entire chapter called Fearless. And Oprah was the epitome of that chapter and understanding that as a kid, she was picked on, she was ridiculed, she had to wear rice bags. She was raped by family members. And still, until this damn day, she gives back.

She’s a multibillionaire. Not just yet. Right? She’s like I think she’s closer to probably three billion at this point. Right. So she gets that definition of again for you. That’ll be a hell of a role model and someone might follow. Right. So, yeah, I definitely I definitely concur with that. All right. So going to my next bonus question, right. If you could be a superhero, who would it be and why?

Wonder Woman. And obviously, I would be Wonder Woman because she is beautiful, gorgeous, all that, which I think and she’s badass, like she can fight itself, but it she doesn’t like to offend other people and says, you know, it’s not this kind of this kind of I don’t know, compared to male superhero. There’s there’s a different dynamic, though, for her. I feel like she is in her femininity, but she is powerful.

She’s strong, she’s unapologetic and she’s very ambitious, driven, all that stuff. So I would if I could be content to be a badass and have a great figure and make people tell me the truth with a lasso. That sounds that sounds great.

I mean, I want everybody. I don’t know that don’t let her lawyer side fool you, right? I mean, yes, she she she looks and plays the part. But like she said, she’s from the south, so I could totally see her back in the day. And Vaseline and a pocketful of NuvaRing is getting ready to go to fear when I think I remember one time on Facebook or Instagram. You had posted that video. Jesus, don’t try me.

Yep, almost picture myself, doc, and I was like, yeah, that’s that’s you on this is definitely.

Well I see. And because you know me in that way. But that part of you know, even why I’m doing this, because to this day, what I haven’t allowed myself to be. That’s really what it’s about. But I’m looking forward to being fully now. But yes, you knew that. And there are others that know like, oh, that makes it makes perfect sense.

So going into closing out this podcast, opportunity of my guest to grab the microphone and on the journey, you may have had questions. So the microphone is yours. What questions?

Where do you see yourself in five years?

Five years from now, so what year is this? Twenty, twenty one. So in five years I’m thinking like the platform that I’m currently working on. To your point, obviously, I think it’s going to be like a multi million dollar platform, but more so. I’m striving to help people and I’m. Checking the list, right, so part of my journey of helping people is influencing more and more business owners, more and more entrepreneurs, more and more startups, small business owners to get them on their journey.

So what I’m looking at my tangible conversions is how many people have I actually helped so that they keep an Italian my head, like I had one guy that I had to interview on the podcast with him, and I have been friends forever. And he had opportunity to start his own podcast because I started my podcast. So that’s the cause and effect that I’m looking for. I want people to say, hey, I started this because I seen you doing it.

I got on this because you had joy on the show and she was talking and she inspired me to do this. So my goal is to look, I want to see a million people to say, hey, thank you. I am now boss uncaged.

I think also I can see it, I mean, this is amazing, this platform is amazing and yes, I think you can see that. Next question, how has your family played into your your your journey? So as a parent.

As a parent? Well, you know, I got one crazy genetically driven child and obviously I got married as well. So I have a child as well. So just I’m constantly trying to influence them on this journey, possibly showing them that, you know, you don’t have to work for anybody. You can make your own hours. You can put the time in and you can get results. You know, living where we live and having the amenities that we have are all a testament to what your parents are doing on their day to day.

So that’s that’s part. And as far as like my parents, you know, my goal was never to strive to make them proud of me. My goal was to execute a plan to show them that their grandkids are going to have opportunities that their grandparents didn’t have. So I’m so looking at that and I’m more of a legacy kind of person, I’m establishing all this content and creating all of this audio and video, because when I’m dead and gone, knowing when it works, all this is going to be this.

I’ll be able to have great grandkids that will be able to go back and be like, what is barf and shit? Who is crazy? I have great grandfather. And then listen to the evergreen content that you and I are reading right now.

My. That’s amazing. I mean, legacy, I think, is amazing, I think just what you talked about, like I’m in the black community in particular, this matters a lot. It matters a lot. We need to see examples of people doing, you know, using their talents in support of things that for legacy in their family, because that’s something we haven’t always had. And I think in I think it matters a lot, and I think the variety and the diversity of how you do that and how you’re doing it, how I’m doing it, like you showing that like this pocket, like you said, there is no like I think outside of there’s no rules to this.

There’s no rules that don’t kill people. That’s the rule. I think that’s very important. Don’t physically, sexually do any of those things that all bad things. Once those into the that there are no rules, it’s who are you, what how do you show up and what what can you offer and what can you leave and what kind of legacy can you leave for your family? Of course, but also just the larger community that I commend you for, for doing this and even thinking about this in a way that has the legacy.

Oh, definitely. Definitely appreciate it. So, I mean, if you have any other questions at a time, otherwise we’re going to close it out.

What do you what kind of hobby that you have currently currently, so in the last 12 months, I picked up sailing, bought a sailboat and been learning how to sail. So that’s one of the things that I like to do. Obviously, a cold and nobody in my household wants to go outside when it’s cold besides myself. So, you know, I’ve made some friendships on that journey of becoming a sailor and some other guys that are sailing on a pretty regular basis.

So, again, I try to get out there at least once a month, even during the wintertime, to just get out there and go sailing. In addition to that, like my passion would always be rock climbing and mixed martial arts.

OK, OK, that’s still in there, but you get all that good.

Last time I checked, we were the same age. But, you know, I can still go to live with. OK, that’s cool. Well, I said, well, those are my questions. And I just you know, I really appreciate this opportunity. This means a lot that we have in the lab. I have very high regard for you. And I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to kind of share into the vision.

We I mean, to your point, I think you have a hell of a message. And I think to your point, doing it the way you want to do it and understanding that you’re going to represent millions, if not tens of millions of females that are currently where you were. And they just need the leap of faith to see an example to jump forward. So you’re stepping to that shoe, you’re taking the brunt of the weight on your back.

And I think that the results are going to show for it. So I definitely appreciate you coming on the show and thank you.

Thank you, say, Grant, over and out.