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“So I may do a coaching call with someone, or maybe it’s reaching out to a customer because I like to call my customers and say hello every once in a while. So I’ll reach out and do that kind of stuff. Then I might go into looking at doing some research. I love researching things to see if I can find some ideas. And the other thing that does that, that I’m consistent on Fridays, every Friday I go to Starbucks every single Friday. And then what I do there, I call it Creative Fridays, and all I do is I’ll map something out. I will write a sales letter; I will study a course that I just purchased. That’s all I do at Starbucks is no other work but creative stuff. And every single Friday for the last two years, I’ve done that. And I can’t tell you something. That’s the most powerful thing than that. I’m not actually thinking of doing creative Wednesdays and Fridays has been so good.”

Boss Uncaged Podcast Transcript

S1E17 – Founder Of The Azon Profit System: Greg Cesar aka “The Creative Marketer” – S1E17 – powered by Happy Scribe

So I may do a coaching call with someone, or maybe it’s reaching out to a customer because I like to call my customers and just say hello every once in a while. So I’ll reach out and do that kind of stuff. Then I might go into looking at doing some research. I love researching things to see if I can find some ideas. And the other thing that do that, that I’m really consistent on on Fridays, every Friday I go to Starbucks every single Friday. And then what I do there, I call it Creative Fridays, and all I do is I’ll map something out. I will write a sales letter, I will study a course that I just purchased. That’s all I do at Starbucks is no other work but creative stuff. And every single Friday for the last two years I’ve done that. And I can’t tell you something. That’s the most powerful thing than that. I’m not actually thinking of doing creative Wednesdays and Fridays been so good.

Boss Uncaged is a bi-weekly podcast that releases the origin stories of business owners as they become Uncaged Trailblazers, Unconventional Thinkers, Untethered Trendsetters and Unstoppable Tycoons. We always hear about overnight success stories, never knowing that it took 20 years to become a reality. Our host S. A. Grant Conduct’s narrative accounts through the voices and stories behind Uncaged Bosses in each episode guest from a wide range of backgrounds sharing diverse business insights. Learn how to release your primal success through words of wisdom from inspirational entrepreneurs and industry experts as they depict who they are, how they juggle their work-life with family life, their successful habits, business expertise, tools and, tips of their trade. Release The Uncaged Bosses Beast in you welcome our host S.A. Grant.

Welcome welcome back to the show, Boss Uncaged. On today’s show, we got a special guest, my man Caesar, today. Sir,

I’m good about you.

I’m doing well. So I guess the first thing is you’re like an industry marketing legend that kind of just walks in the shadows and pops up when you want to pop in and out. And that’s the way I kind of met you. You kind of get you to Ty Cohon’s event. And you were just in the back of the room having a conversation, talking to people, and you had a group of people just huddling around you and you just giving out jewels. And I was like, who’s this guy? That’s my first question to you. I mean, who are you?

OK, so my name is Greg Caesar. I’ve been in the game. Boy, I started consulting people in nineteen ninety-seven. Nineteen ninety-eight timeframe. Wow. And so I’ve seen the full evolution of where the Internet was to. I was there when Google got started. I mean when Yahoo was around and around twenty-two, twenty-three timeframe I decided, hey you know what, I’m helping people this time I help myself. So I decided let me start creating products and selling products versus just consulting. And I just got really good at selling products. Since then I’ve sold ebooks and course there’s an over one hundred different countries. I spoke on stages all over Europe, UK, Malaysia, Singapore, Jamaica and all over the United States mastermind with some of the most brilliant people. And it’s been a fun ride. It’s great to see where it’s been to where it is now and excited about where it’s going in the future.

Great, great. So if you have to define yourself in three to five words, what words would those be?

Oh, man, it’d be easy, creative, creative, creative. You know, I’m known online as the creative mark. Even when I’m talking to some really high level marketers, one thing they always say is you always come up with something that I would never think about. So I like thinking out of the box. In fact, when I’m speaking out on stages and I ask people, you know where you are and out of the box thinker and everybody raises their hands, I respond with the problem is you’re still thinking next to the box, even though you’re out of the box. If you ask me the same question, my answer is, what box are you talking about? I don’t even see the box. So yeah.

So, I mean, just define your business a little bit more and you say marketing, but I mean, marketing has a lot of factors, right? A lot of avenues. A lot of road. And what speciality are you in?

OK, so I’m basically right now I do two things. One is helping businesses. So if there’s a business that needs to expand their sales, grow their business, I will teach them and help them do that. 90 to ninety-five percent of the businesses out there are doing it absolutely wrong. And they don’t understand that. And then the other piece is helping entrepreneurs who want to get started in the Internet marketing game and helping them understand the process. How do you find a winning product to sell what markets you want to go after and how do you build that? And for most of them, they’re coming from, you know, a stack of money. So how do I do that and do that affordably? And how do I use direct response marketing strategies to be able to do that, which is an art form in itself? Forget about having to come up with the ideas, but how do you use direct response marketing? Because that’s an entrepreneur and a small business. Branding is too high. So you need sales and you need as much sales as fast possible.

So, I mean, we’ve been on the conference call for like ten minutes, you drop some nuggets already, right?


How did you get into that line of business? I mean, what was your road to get there?

So I think I was born a marketer. I remember as a kid, I went to Catholic school and they used to give us a box of chocolate to go sell, and you have 60 days to sell like two or three boxes of chocolate and it would be the fifty-ninth day and I hadn’t sold one yet. And so now I got to go to the Dunkin Donuts, stand out front and in a day I’d have my whole box where everyone else it took them the whole 60 days and they were struggling. And that’s because even when I talk to people I understood nobody wanted to buy chocolate. So my question wasn’t, hey, do you want some chocolate? Because your answer is going to be no. My question was, hey, can you help support our school in the chocolate was just a vehicle to get that support. So even as a kid, I knew the right language to use. And so coming out of college, I bought my first product online, which was, of course by Marshall Silver, passion, profit and Power. And so I was studying him and what he was doing and decided, you know, I want to do this, although my goal was to come out of college, get a corporate job and move up that ladder. At this point, I started realizing that it was someone else there for me. And fast forward a couple of years. I just had a boss one day who said to me, when I tell you to do something, you do it. The dream that I always had at that moment, I realized I was unemployed. I wasn’t designed to work for someone else. So it was a few months after that I quit my job, started a business, had a turn in the company car and was terrified. Terrified. Ninety-seven. There weren’t webinars and podcasts that we could learn from. So it was trial and error. But I a tell you what, when you do something that you love, what happens is the money will follow. And I didn’t understand what that meant because people used to say that all the time. And what I learned is when you’re doing something you love, you’re not doing it for the money. And because you love it, you keep doing it and eventually you start to get good enough that money starts to follow. See, when you’re doing something you don’t love, you’re not going to stick around long enough to get good at it and you’re never going to get paid for it. So now, because of the knowledge of acquired people pay me to come see them and fly across the country and help them out. So that’s how I got started.

Wow. Wow. So I think one of the big nuggets that you just brought up to I think a lot of people just don’t understand is copy and having the right copy, you could put a million dollars behind something, would have a copy. Sucks. You’re not pretty much going to sell anything, right?

One hundred percent.

How did you develop your copy skills currently right now? Well, that’s something that just kind of just you knew right away or you kind of just grew into that over a period

that you want the true story,

true story.

You’re going to laugh at this coming out of college. I thought I was going to be a rapper.I was part of a rap group with me, my cousin and a couple of friends. And we were actually pretty good. And I wrote all the lyrics. And when I graduated from the University of Connecticut, I had gotten a job. But in the evening we would go to the studio to make music. And the studio producers, like what we were doing in the science was a small contract and we were locked in for five years and literally ten minutes after signing the contract, the studio producer said, OK, the other song that we were working on and I did all that extra work on, you guys got to pay me for it. And it was four or five thousand dollars. So where’s a college kid going to get four or five thousand dollars? So that literally was the last day we went to the studio. It was time to get serious about work. I drove my timing to work and when I got started in Internet marketing, writing copy to me was writing a song. Because in that song, there’s a beginning, there’s a middle, there’s an end. And you’re telling the story in the story is all about emotion that you want that listener to have. So when I get into Internet marketing and I wanted to write the copy for my website and I said, let me just tell the story. And I said, what’s the emotion that I want them to have? What do I want them to see? And part of it was like writing a song. As you paint a picture in that listener’s mind, they have to see themselves in the song. So when I’m writing a copy, my goal is for you to see yourself in that product. I want you to see the solution that that product is going to deliver for you. So let’s say, for example, if I’m writing copy for a back pain product, your back hurts. You don’t want the back gizmo, just that you want. You want to live pain-free. So when I’m writing the copy, I’m describing what life will be like being pain-free imagine yourself taking a stroll with your significant other, holding your hands on the beach and not stuck at home while she’s at the beach with the kids. Right. And if you want that, then this product is going to help you do that. So your buying decision is not are you buying this product? You’re deciding do you want to live pain-free? So I’m painting that picture in my.

Now you see why I wanted you on the podcast so much last week and we’re sitting down and I just acted like some random questions and he was just like spitting out these Jews. And I mean, I was like a lucky leprechaun with a bucket trying to catch all these little nuggets now that I got to get them. It’s crazy, man. So when you think about the 20 years that most people perceive to say, hey, I just came out of nowhere, they pop up, they’re in the limelight, and then you find out the stories behind it is that it took them 20, 30 years to get to where they are. How long did it take you to get to where you are currently?

Yeah, I always say I’m an overnight success and only took me 10 years to get there, I would say. So I started my consulting business. It was from December ninety-seven, January ninety-eight, and we were selling a product called the National Direct Internet YellowPages. And I would say by July ninety-eight, the company flew me and my wife down to be in their infomercial. So I wasn’t having huge success, probably making five thousand a month, ten thousand a month selling their products where everyone else was struggling. And there was a guy in a company and I asked them when they said was Rich Esposito, I’ll never forget that 20 years later, I said, how are you having so much success? Which, by the way, is another lesson. See, I could have tried to figure it out on my own, which I could have, or I can find a guy who’s doing it and say, how the heck are you doing? And that’s what I did. And he said to me, Learn the power of the word now. They said, what do you mean by that? He said, tell them they can’t have it and see what happens. And I’ve never forgotten that lesson. So when I would go out and start selling, my philosophy wasn’t, hey, I need your business, I need your business, I need your business. It was, tell me about your business. Let me see if I want to take you on as a client. Man, people didn’t know what to do with themselves. They were like, what do you mean if you’re going to take me on as a client? Well, this is what I do. Our product is perfect. So now they’re selling me on why I should take them on as a client. Then I started networking with other people to get lead. So we started stealing pretty quick when I got into the Internet marketing side. Even that was quick, and to be honest with you, it would have been even faster. The only thing that took me a while was my first product. I had the idea probably two years before I created it, and it was more analysis of paralysis and thinking it had to be perfect. So I spent a year and a half working on this thing and working on this thing. And I was still only six months, I mean, halfway. And then what ended up happening was my landing page had got indexed in the Google and it was blank. So I said, holy crap, the rest of the stuff that I was going to put, the bonuses that this the said, screw them. I’m going live on Monday. Two weeks later, we were making four thousand dollars in profit. So I said to myself, oh, my God, I just spent a year and a half trying to perfect this thing and in two weeks I went to four-week profit and I’m not wasting time on stuff like this anymore. So success can be fast if you understand some basic principles. And then when you start building a list, it’s even faster because what you have that list you can launch a product in in a day or two, you could have four or five figures coming in.

Yeah, I mean, the whole listing was kind of an eye-opener for me, like when I first just two different answers to different type of marketers. Right. There’s general like commercial marketers that market for like businesses. And then there’s like professional marketers that actually do this on a grand scale for a living. And on one side, I was on the left side and I’ve crossed over to the right side. So now I could see the vision of having a list is essentially the bread and butter of any marketers, basket, pound for pound period. And you might have to give them some details about why that’s so important.

Yeah, believe it or not, whatever business you are in, it doesn’t matter what product or industry or service that you sell. You’re not in that business. The business that you should be in is building a list of people who have a similar problem. Your business then becomes monetizing that list with your solution. So if I am a personal trainer, my business is building a list of people who have fitness issues. If I own a restaurant, my list is building people who like to eat and go to restaurants. I’m going to monetize that list with food. I’m going to monetize that list with my personal training services. Everyone thinks what they should be doing is running an ad and selling a product or service. I think you don’t have any way of getting the customer back in the door. So to give you an example, one of my clients is restaurant in Stamford, Connecticut, and we did a contest on his website in the contest was Enter your name and email address. And if we pull your name out, you’re going to win a free dinner for two nights. And then on the thank you page, we had it said, hey, congratulations, you’re now submitted. If you know anyone else who would be interested. Tell them about the contest. If they win the contest, guess what? We’ll automatically give you the free dinner also because you referred them to us. I mean, did those people start selling their souls? They put everyone, their friends, their moms, their dads. And so our system would send an email that would say, hey, so-and-so said you might be interested into this contest to come and register. We built a list of about seven or eight thousand people for this little restaurant, about six months. So one day the owner said, I want to test this list and see how powerful it is. So he took twenty names out of the list and he sent them an email and said, Hey, come in tonight for dinner. And if you do, you’re going to get a free glass of sangria. This was a Tuesday, which is a date night for him. Out of the twenty-six showed up. That’s a thirty-three percent response rate. He only holds forty-six forty-five seats in a restaurant. I said do if you were to send it out to all seven or eight thousand you had problems tonight.


So what did he do. A restaurant. He built the list, he monetize the list with food and it’s all about the list man. It’s not about the product, it’s about the list because let’s say a year from now you will sell that business. A business with the list is worth a whole lot more than the business with the list. So it’s probably the most important activity you can do in a business is do that list.

So when do you think it’s a good time to start monetizing the list? And then when we had lunch everyday, we talked about this a little bit. So I mean, where that sweet spot to say, Okay, I have one hundred.I have five hundred. I have three thousand. One is a good time to sum up

one. If you if you get one person on that list, email him. You don’t want to wait for a couple of reasons, because Dan Kennedy used to say every time you don’t message or email your list, you’re losing 10 percent for every week. You don’t do that. You’d be losing mindshare. And it’s true. Sometimes I’ll sign up for a list and then a couple of weeks later, they’ll send me an email. And I’m like, who are these people again? Do I remember them? Then I’ll search my Gmail to see did they just spam me or that I feel something out that request the information. And usually if I see that I was the one that initiated the contact, I said, OK, you have to sign up, I’ll keep it. So I would imagine if they had started emailing me then and they’re right and we would have been building that relationship.And the key there is you’re building the relationships. The a lot of people are afraid of emailing their list because they say, oh, I don’t want to bother them in the busy. Here’s the thing. If you send them is a bother, they’re not your target audience. The example I like to give is let’s say you’ve got the cure for cancer and you build the list of people who have cancer and you say, I don’t want to bother them. They’re going to say, how selfish of you you’re not messaging a scene from. To save my life, what are you doing? Right. But what happens if you email them talking about diabetes? They’re going to say, why emailing me about diabetes, I have diabetes, I have cancer, send me the cancer stuff, I need to live longer. I’m not worried about the sugar or whatever dessert that I’m not supposed to eat. So if you’re talking to your people, they will want you to message them more. If it’s the wrong audience, they’re going to be bothered.You don’t want to be in that position anyway.

That’s definitely a serious golden nugget that you just drop. And I don’t think people realize I. I do some clients and the frequency of emailing has always been an issue with them. And they always think that once a month is OK. And I’m like, if you’re not emailing at least once a day on a routine basis, you’re wasting your time.

Sign up for Oprah Winfrey’s list and see how long it takes before they start emailing you. Oprah is every day. Boom, boom. My wife went somewhere. She travelled on Spirit. Spirit sends an email out every day. Victoria’s Secret. I bought my wife something out of the catalogue. They send the catalogue every week. They send an email every day. These are major, major organizations. And if they’re doing it, Oprah understands her. People are dying to hear from her. Right. Who doesn’t want to hear from Oprah?

You’re right about that.

Yeah. Yeah.

What would you have done differently to get to where you are a lot faster?

I would say I would have started outsourcing more of my business sooner, even though we were designing for clients and I never designed site, I had a friend or somebody who would design the work. But I was still very involved in the day today. And it took me until 2004 to realize that I was the thing. I was the reason things were slow. So I hired somebody who to answer the phones and do customer service. And that year was probably the first vacation I really took. Enjoyed myself in the business because before then I’d be on vacation. And I remember we were in Puerto Rico once and I’m on a pay phone call back in the office. Hey, is everything OK? And so until I hired someone to handle the customer service, I go on vacation now. I’m not even checking email. I don’t want to know.

So I would say that would probably be one of the first things that I would do. The other thing is finding people that are already doing it. But again, when I started that wasn’t available. We didn’t have people who were building websites and bringing in a million unique someone on those websites. So I wouldn’t have been able to do that. But today, if I start over today, the very first thing I would do is decide what am I going to sell, who am I going to sell it to? And then I would go out and find somebody who’s already doing it and say, let me pay you shortcut the process. Why show me what I need to do? That would be the absolute first thing I would do, because the other option is don’t pay that person who’s already doing it and figuring it out on my own, which may take six months to a year of trial and error. And I don’t want to. Yeah, and I don’t want to go through that.

Wow. Wow. So do you mean you’ve got the hustle? You I mean, I can hear the passion in you right now and you’ve been in the game for a minute. For a minute now. Right. So so do you come from an entrepreneurial background? I mean, where’s this edge coming from?

Now it’s coming from poverty. My dad came from Haiti back in the late 60s, was making a dollar an hour, but he was a smart man, even though he was an immigrant. You know, I used to hear stories from him about when he was in Haiti. He used to get on his bike at three o’clock in the morning and ride his bicycle 15 miles to get to work. And so when we were kids and I like that, I don’t feel like going to work today and that work. But to school. And he’d say his exact words were, you can die right here right now and you’re still going to go to school today. So this is a dude who was like, no, you go to school. And so I got work ethic from him. But growing up in one of the poorest neighbourhoods in Stamford, Connecticut, and seeing, you know, the rest of the population that was there, even though we didn’t have money, but my dad had mindset, you know, he knew that poverty wasn’t the thing that he wanted to keep doing. And coming from Haiti, even though we were living in the project, that was a hundred times better than what he had in Haiti using an outhouse in Haiti and things like that, not having running water or electricity a few hours a day. So when he came here, he had the mindset of holy crap on me. So I grew up seeing that mindset of man. We have abundance, even though compared to everybody else, we had nothing, but we had running water, which is a luxury in Haiti. And so then when I was about seven or eight, this guy making a dollar an hour, I don’t know what he was making by this point, saved his m ney. And we bought a house with a three family house and he rented out the first floor and the third floor.But we moved out of the projects. And even as a kid, I knew mean, that’s pretty impressive. So now I started going to Catholic school. And at the Catholic school, I saw what other kids were living like, even though we were in a school that had nothing but some of these kids, like in high school, they’re coming in your BMW. You know me. I had a car that was two hundred bucks. My mom bought off some guy. These guys come with BMW. So then I’d go home and we were living. We could play basketball in the hood. So I get to see how kids living in the hood were living. And then I saw how rich preppy kids were living. So I saw the duality of both sides of the economic spectrum. And I was like, I love you guys. I’m having fun playing ball with you, but I don’t want to live like that. See how these dudes are living. I want to live like that. But the other thing I’ll also tell you is in the seventh grade, I had a teacher like so many teacher, I remember before eighth grade. Instead of reading Moby Dick, Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn, he made us read books like How to Win Friends and Influence People.


motivational books. So to all the teachers out there and people who have influence in young people’s lives, you don’t understand how much you influence a child, both positive and negative. So when he was making us read those books, I was absorbing it and again, I think because I was born to be who I am, those books made me say, OK, there’s more to life. So I always knew I wanted more. And then when I was in high school, everybody else was hanging out. I had to go to work. So I was working at Foot Locker, I was working at another job and I had money in my pocket. My boss used to say, why do we pay you? All you do is put it back into the store. So I always had the new Jordans. I always had the new sneakers, the new clothes. And there was a pride of being able to say, you know, I’m a sophomore in high school. I paid for that myself and I still had 200 bucks left over in my check. So I felt like I was a millionaire. Right. So to me, I was like, I love that feeling. So I fell in love with having money. Once you fall in love with having money, you can’t go back. But then you start to want to do everything you can to make more of it. So when I graduated college and I started my business, I just wanted more one more. I wanted more. And it wasn’t just wanting it. I got a lot of people just want it, but they don’t get it.

What was your major in school?

Initially I was a marketing major, but I changed it and I was sitting in one of my marketing classes one day and I said, you know what? If this dude knew anything about marketing. Why is he here teaching for thirty forty thousand dollars a year and it was that that was my last semester. I took a marketing class, so I ended up going economics. Best thing I ever did tell you the truth, but I didn’t know it at the time was just pure luck. My guidance counsellor was the one that suggested I go in economics and I did. Now, economics is the study of data and numbers. And if you make decisions based off of that data. So economics taught me how to think the other thing that they all of economics is cost benefit analysis, everything is what’s the cost of doing something? What’s the benefit of doing something? And then you determine which is better for you. Is the cost higher than the benefit or is the benefit higher than the cost? And then you decide, man, I run my life that way. Everything I do, I decide to do a cost benefit analysis on how should I do it or should I not? And here’s the reasons why is the reasons why not. And I decide which is more important.

Yeah, I mean, that’s I don’t think people really understand the magnitude of what you just said. I mean, and I got this from you when we were at and learn. Right. And you were just talking about how to select products and you were saying, well, why would I even buy a product unless I know the product or sell first 100 percent? And then you would do not just the research, but you would do the analytical research behind that product and see who was searching for it on Google currently. And then you would take that and say, OK, look, there’s 10 million people searching for this information. That means they have a problem. This product is a solution. Put the two together and then equal success.

One hundred percent people do it the hard way. They make a decision and they say, I’m going to sell a product. Then they create a product. They spend months doing it. And then they say, let me start marketing. Now, it can be organic marketing or it could be paid marketing. Six months later, they say, I mean, I haven’t made any sales. I wondering why ?Me I do it the other way. First, again, using cost benefit analysis, I say, is it going to be worth creating this product or not? What’s the benefits? What’s the cost of creating the product? And then I decide, OK, it’s worth it. And part of that process is, is anyone making money with this product? And if they are, the next question is, can I get to where they’re at once? I know that making the product is a moot point. It’s just a logical conclusion. Right at this point, I already know I’m going to make money because I’ve already got all the pieces and the elements laid out, it would be equal to, let’s say, you know, some plumber who has a million dollar business. And the plumber said, well, here’s my ad. And the only thing I do is I run it in the newspaper and his newspaper. I run. I don’t do any other market. Well, guess what? I could do a million dollar plumbing business also because I got 100 percent of the process. Most people started in reverse. I’ll give an example of something else I did. There was a magazine that called me once. They wanted me to advertise in the magazine. First question is tell me about the publication, what’s the list of get cost benefit analysis? I say, well, why don’t you send me a copy of the publication? Let me take a look at the of the publication that they think they’re sending me a publication so I could just peruse through it and decide about whether I’m going to advertise. Now, I started calling the advertisers in the publication. I started calling them, I said, hey, listen, I’m looking to run an ad in this publication. Tell me what kind of success rate have you had and how many leads do you generate? The first person I talked to was a graphic artist, and she told me that she was trading her services in exchange for free ad and the publication. So she did the graphic layouts. They gave it for free. So she goes, I’m getting the ad for free and it’s not worth it. I said, Oh, thank God I called this lady. So then I called the publication and said, Hey, sorry, but I’m not going to be advertising in your publication, but do you see how most people find out the publication is no good? They spend four grand, they don’t get any leads and then they say is no good. I said, well, let me find out if it’s any good, then I’ll spend it four. So cost benefit analysis. Everything you do should be a cost benefit analysis.

I mean, it’s like nature versus nurture, right? I mean, do you think that’s a learned behavior or is it something that initially that you were just born with?

No, that was economics. One hundred percent got it.

So, I mean, so technically, anybody that would apply himself could potentially learn as well.

Yeah. One hundred percent. Yeah.

I mean, that’s definitely some good insight. I mean, you got my mind turning and burning right now. And so another thing that I want to talk to you about, I mean, just a little bit more about your family life. I mean, how do you juggle your family life with your workplace?

So I will tell you, when I was in corporate, it was much harder because I was traveling. They had me on a plane a lot of times and my son had just had a newborn son. So I was out of town a lot of his first year of life.


now for me is a choice. And I like to joke around. I say, you know what? I don’t wake up until I’m finished sleeping. And when I’m finished sleeping, then I wake up so and I seriously mean that I’m not a morning person, so I don’t have an alarm. Usually if I’m setting an alarm, it’s the alarm will be set for the time. When I say, man, I really shouldn’t be still in bed past this time. That’s the only time I’ll send the law, just like I was in Washington, D.C. and I had to get to the airport. So my alarm is set for if I hear this and it wakes me up, I’m in trouble then means I’m running late. So that’s the only time I really set a lot for me now. Like when my boys are in college now, they’ll come home and me and we’ll be playing video games from like 10 in the morning till 3:00, 4:00 in the afternoon. So I get to choose when I work, when I don’t work. And even if it’s something that I’ve really got to get done, there’s a lot of things to do. I can do it. I can wait till my wife falls asleep. Then I’ll go do it or I’ll get it done before she comes home. Or I can outsource it. Right. Like right now we’ve got a project we’re working on and we’re going to be running some Google AdWords traffic to it. Guess what? I just hired a guy and say, hey, I could do this myself, but I’m a little busy right now. Let me pay you some money to do it for. And he’s like, oh, yeah, I understand AdWords. I get it. You understand it, but I want you to do it my way this way, you know, so I’ll give you the strategies, but you do it. So he’s going to do all the legwork of it. So I don’t have to do that. I just got to do the thinking part, which was not going to take fifteen minutes. Twenty minutes. His work is going to be hours. So the other aspect of it is let somebody else do the work. I would rather come up with a new idea or new product to sell than sit there and actually do the work,

that particular thing that you took about. And it took me forever to realize that. And once I executed that, I probably got probably twenty five times the work done in a fraction of the time. Literally overnight it seemed like, you know, how was he doing all these things? But just outsourcing and systems come into play and it made you look like an octopus, right?

So I went out one day and I bought a screwdriver set at Home Depot and I came home and my wife looks at me and goes, And what do you plan on doing with those things? I said, Babe, listen, I don’t outsource because I’m lazy. I outsource because it guarantees it’ll get done. So the joke is, you know, I don’t do any work. What I do is just, you know, I don’t believe in doing hard work.

Got it. Got a smart way of doing it.


So I think you alluded to this a little bit. I mean, what’s your morning habits? Your morning routines.

Now, that’s something I wish I can get a little bit more disciplined on. So when I look at the things that I do and where my colleagues and the wheel are, is I got to be more consistent, more disciplined with the things they do typically for me is I wake up in the morning and I reach my phone and I may listen to whether it could be a podcast or it could just be some music just to wake my brain up. Then I’ll go and get dressed and I might do some push ups and sit ups, a little bit of exercise, and then I’ll go to my desk in one of the first things I do. And most people say don’t do this, but I will see what’s going on in the world. I’ll go to CNN or some other websites, just see what’s going on. And here’s the reason for that. It’s you know, I talk to so many wide array of people and I always like to have the position of people respecting you and your intelligence. And the last thing I want to do is go and talk with someone. And they say, man, did you hear what happened with this? And I look at them. So what’s that? It’s just a terrible position to be in. So I like to understand what’s going on in the world, good or bad, just to be able to have a conversation with people. And then typically by about nine, I’ll get on with my admin and her job is to keep me organized. I got her working on something we’re expanding into Amazon UK and Amazon Europe. And I said, OK, I need you to go research the process and let me know what we need to do. And she came back with a bunch of websites for me to go. Rydal I found all these websites you can take a look at. I said, what do you think I got you for? If I was going to do that, I could do that myself. I said, no, your job is to go learn the process and then you come and tell me what we’re doing next. Even this morning, she was asking me they’re asking us to tell them what the commodity is. I said, I don’t even understand what that is. I said, here’s what we’re selling. You go find out what commodity we need to be in. So so my morning job is to then give her what she needs to do, what she does, that then I’ll go into I might have a call schedule. Usually I try to schedule a call for either ten or two pm for a coaching call. So I may do a coaching call with someone. Or maybe it’s reaching out to a customer because I like to call my customers and just say hello every once in a while. So I’ll reach out and do that kind of stuff. Then I might go into looking at doing some research. I love researching things and see if I can find some ideas in. The other thing that I do that that I’m really consistent on is on Fridays, every Friday I go to Starbucks every single Friday. And then what I do there, I call it Creative Fridays, and all I do is I’ll map something out. I will write a sales letter, I will study a course that I just purchased. That’s all I do at Starbucks is no other work but creative stuff. And every single Friday for the last two years I’ve done that. And I can’t tell you something. That’s the most powerful thing than that. I’m not actually thinking of doing creative Wednesdays and Fridays. It’s been so darn good and it works.

I think one of the things, as you just said, was really, really important. And I want to reiterate that you’re pretty much saying that you’re delegating responsibility and you’re standing as a boss in that situation. And I think a lot of people, they lose that aspect of, OK, this person came back to me or they can’t get it done. I would do it myself. But then you’re like, OK, look, this is what I really want. And then you tell them again exactly what you want because again, you’re delegating the job that you don’t want to do. So you can keep scaling. And I think that’s important. And a real key thing to success.

They will never, ever be as good as you and you got to get over that. And that’s why a lot of people say, I’d just rather do it myself. It took a long time to accept that and figure that out. So, eh, they’re never going to do it as good as you. They’re never going to do it as fast as you. And they’re never going to will most will never care as much as you are. But if they can get 90 percent of it done, OK, that’s a beautiful thing. So I just let them go do that. The other thing is I tell them I’m paying you to think if we’re on a project and you’re stuck and I’m on a coaching call, sometimes a coaching call for me could be two hours. So if I’m ten minutes and you get stuck in the answer as you just sit there and wait for two hours for me to be done, you’ve just wasted a lot of time. So I give them the power to make decisions. And I always say, I would rather you make a decision and be wrong than sit there and be right. Make the decision. And I get that out of one hundred decisions. You make ten percent of them you’re going to be wrong on. But the other 90 percent that you’re going to be right on saves me a heck of a lot of time. So I let them make that decision and let them be wrong.

I’m just this is the first time I didn’t have, like, pen and paper and I’m like, damn. But I got the record and I got the record. Yeah, I could definitely go back to it. So what do you see yourself and your. Twenty years from now.

So good question one, I got to get me out of the business. The brand is me because I don’t think in 20 years I’ll be in my 60s. I don’t think someone wants to buy an Internet marketing course, most 60 year old guy. So we’re going to have to rebrand the organization. And so what I’m going to start doing is we’ll have different products, but I have different people creating those products. And then the second piece is which we’re relaunching now, is telling you if we’re relaunching our digital agency, focusing on things like marketing automation as well as funnel design, because that’s the future. It was also the past. I mean, we were doing it, but in different ways. Now it’s just automated. But the thing is, the business owners don’t understand that. And with the speed of the Internet, the things that we can do on the Internet with now, you’ve got these millennials that are going to be in 20 years, they’re going to be 40 and 50. Those guys have a totally different buying process than people from 10 years ago. So we’re going to be offering those kinds of solutions. So we’ll have a brick and mortar type of business, but we’ll also have our own, like digital business as well. And on Amazon, the goal then is to have five, six hundred thousand products sell it on Amazon.

Nice, nice. But so much your comment about the 60 year old and I’m thinking like, who’s in the market in that age group? I mean, Grant Cardone is like 60 plus, right? Yeah. And he’s still a 10 X Factor guy. I mean, he’s still doing it. So I don’t think it would be any reason why if you want to stay in that space, you couldn’t unless you just think that the demographic is going to shift that drastically in the next 20 years.

Well, Grant is just a beast and he’s got such a massive infrastructure and team. But guess what? A great cartoon got hit by a bus tomorrow. That business still goes on. He’s going to 80 salespeople who were managing because he’s got advertising teams. We’re managing the marketing. He’s just the emcee. It is 10x of it. So you get really great cardio in that business, those goals. And that’s where I need to be. The way his business model is something I can go on vacation for a month, who cares in business, is still going to move

what some tools that you will not be able to do your business without.

You will. One is keyword researcher, pro. Matter of fact, right before this podcast I was on, there is this peculiar research tool that searches the Google suggest other tools that I use a lot. Now, this is only for e-commerce stuff, but I use ship station. So if I get an order, a physical border that I have to fulfill, which probably only do five to ten of those week, but from Amazon or from Wal-Mart, because we’re also on, nice. So the order will come in and the patient gets the order and it shows me what the product is. And all I need to do is click on the person’s name and click the button, prints the label and it then goes into Wal-Mart and says product was shipped. Here’s a tracking idea.

Nice. So it’s full automation. Oh, full automation.

I mean, each order takes me all of about 30 seconds to fulfill. Whereas if I did not have that thing. Oh, my God, you’re talking 20 minutes per order for e-commerce. If anyone is doing any form of e-commerce or shipping up products, that’s the best tool to have quick funnels is one that I use quite often. I would say the number one would be a Weber, because that’s my email list. You take a Weber out and I’m in trouble,

breaks out a Weber a little bit. I think a lot of people there, they’re familiar with the more the commercial brands, like the kinds of contacts, the MailChimp. And I love MailChimp for different reasons. But I mean, why would you pick a Weber over MailChimp?

So MailChimp constant contact. They’re not Internet marketer friendly. I was rejected by constant contact. I think I sent one email and they were like, sorry, you’re gone. So MailChimp, I never even tried. So those companies are really the beachfront. They’re looking for the restaurants and the carpet cleaners and those kinds of people for their platform for several reasons. One, they can charge more. And two, those people stick around a whole lot longer anyway. So kudos to them. A Weber is a little bit more Internet marketing friendly, although they have some issues in terms of whether you may have some deliverability issues sometimes. And B, they’re now starting to look at metrics and saying you’re open to lower your Openreach to that. So there’s a couple issues that you’ll have with a weapon, but you’ve got to have some form of email communication tool. Now, I also have used one shopping cart, which is an active campaign as well as Infusionsoft for email marketing as well. So I’ve used them all but eight Webers when I use the most.

So, I mean, you’re a big ICOM guy, right? I mean, obviously, you’re an Amazon. Did you ever use any Shopify platform at all?

Matter of fact, I just set up Shopify yesterday, and the only reason I’m using Shopify for this particular product is because we’re going to run Facebook advertising and Shopify and Facebook have really deep integration. But you can tell when someone ad can’t, you can tell when someone started check out but didn’t finish and then you could rerun ads to those people. Whereas when shopping cart, which is what I primarily used as a shopping cart for the last 15, 20 years, they have zero integration with Facebook. So for this particular one, I’m going to be using Shopify for it.

Wow. What final words of wisdom do you have for anybody that’s coming up behind you, following your footsteps, that following you as a leader moving forward?

A couple of things. Everything you want to do, someone someone’s already done it. So you have two choices, you can go figure it out on your own or you can shortcut the process by asking for help. That’s the first thing I would say. Like I said, everything. If I had to do over the first thing, I would do that find somebody who’s already doing No. One that saves you so much time. Number two, only sell what’s already making money. If you have no evidence that somebody is making money, why do you want to be the one to test that market unless it’s something you’re really, really passionate about, you’re really passionate about it, if you’ll stick with it, I know it. And yes, but in general, find something that’s already making money. The other thing that I like is I like things that people are already looking for. It’s much easier for me to go to the marketplace and say, hey, you were looking for red widgets. I got red widgets versus Hey, I got green. Does anybody need green widgets? Now I got to push myself into the marketplace versus the marketplace is pulling me. And I’d rather be pulled in than me pushing myself to a marketplace

to talk about standard supply and.

Absolutely. And it’s not only just supply and demand, but they’ve got to be looking for if they’re not looking for it. It’s harder to sell. Got the next thing is in anything that I don’t know, there’s somebody who does I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard someone say to me, Oh, I can’t do this. I don’t know that. I don’t know how. What do you mean you don’t know? Like, let’s look at building a membership site. Someone said, oh, I don’t know how to build a membership site. Why do you need to know how to build a membership site to have a membership site? The only thing you need to know is the outcome. And the outcome is I need a membership site that looks like that membership site. So what am I going to do? I’m going to go to work or fiver or and say, hey, I’m looking for a membership site. Here’s the one I want to copy. How long will it take you to do it? And when the guy calls me up and says, well, do you want me to use wish-List or a member or some other thing, you know what I’m going to say? I’m a sick man and you just curse me out. What did you just say? I don’t understand what you just asked me. I’m going to say I don’t care how you get there. All I need is I need people to put in a username and password and then when they log in, they can see the material that’s private protected. However you get there is your business. Let me know when it’s done. So all I need to know is the outcome. Everything else in between I don’t care about. And it makes no sense for me to learn it. So people, if you follow those principles in literally those are the principles that I live my business by, I find what’s already selling. If I don’t know how to do it, I find someone who does. And all I need to know is the outcome. And then you live your life by those principles. Man, can you get to success much faster?

Hell of a golden nugget. Do you think membership sites are still valuable in today’s market?

One hundred percent. The key is you got to do them right and you start with a low price. Then you have your cells. But if you have a price that is, you know, like there was some site, I was paying them nine bucks a month and I was with them for probably eight years and I never logged in. The price was so cheap. I’m like the one time I’m going to need it, it’s going to be worth it. So I have a low price product like that. And then think of what’s my next price point and then what’s my highest price point. People like the sense of belonging, the sense of community. So when you create one trip, when it gives them that sense of belonging, you belong to something. If you ever study Russell Brunson and what he’s done with Click, but he didn’t sell a funnel there. At the end of the day, what is a funnel builder? It’s a website building tool. That’s all it is.

And it has email capability.

Yeah. And the only thing click funnels did is you can change the order of the pages and it automatically changes the links or I can build a funnel using front page if I want to do it. All I got to do is put the links. But how did he sell one hundred million dollars a year with that thing? He created a sense of community around him,

so he bought the tri.

He built a tri yes. So membership sites are still really, really good.

Cool, cool. All right, so I got a bonus question for you.


if you could spend twenty-four hours or anybody dead or alive, who would it be and why?

Wow, great question. Twenty four hours with anyone dead or alive, who would it be? Can you be more than one?

Well, let’s start with the primary first. This is your show today, so if you want to list seven people, I’m all ears.

me. See, the second one is a good friend, so I hate for him to see this as he ain’t no one. OK, I got to give the two. So the first one, I would love to go to Russell Brunson’s office just for a day and just be a fly on the wall and just watch. What’s your morning routine like. What do you do. What’s next. What’s the other. The second one, same exact thing is my boy Čunek single on the beast. And so I would just love to see how he organizes how he works with this team. What does he get them to do and how they interact with him and just study. Now, notice, most people would have said, oh, I want to work with so-and-so so they can show me their products. Product don’t matter if I understand the process, I could put any product in process.

Yeah, I see you pick two titans, right?

Absolutely. Because they’re already doing it.

Yeah. Yeah, they’re doing it. Well,

yeah. And once you get it down, I think they put their pants on the same way I do in the morning. And guess what, if I knew what Richard Branson does every day, I could duplicate it. I just don’t know what he does. So I would rather just have two people that can see the processes and how they think and then learn. And even though I may never get to I mean, I only get the 50 percent of what they are and what they do, but that 50 percent is enough.

So it’s definitely ironic because I mean, I’ve asked that question a handful of times on his podcast and almost nine out of ten times, it’s always somebody that’s passed away and you put two people that are alive and active and well today that it’s like this is a big point.

Let’s say if I would have picked someone like who wrote the Napoleon Hill, he broke thinking, grow rich. I would love to sit and talk with the guy. Guess what? He died. Broke, right. And yet your mindset and the thinking is wonderful. But you are looking at that from what was happening 50, 60, 70 years ago. Why not study the guys who’s using the technology that I’m going to turn around and want to use tomorrow?

Hmm. Well,

I want to see Russell. How are you really using click funnels, you know, so. Yeah.

So that’ll be interesting.

Exactly. Or so. And so how are you really using Facebook ads? If I pick someone who’s died, Gary Halberd, for example, would love to get Albert, but for Gary, I mean, there’s nothing he could teach me that I can. Well, I mean, finding sales copy. Yes. But looking at today’s technology, he wouldn’t be able to help me. So guess what that would mean? I would still need another layer of a person thought,

nice, that’s great. And that’s just the way you process things you’re processing in a system itself. You’re just saying, OK, I want to speak to this person because I’m missing this piece of nugget and I put this nugget with this nugget and put them together and then execute and put everybody else on the treadmill to build the revenue that I need. Right.

So food cost benefit analysis, when I tell you that econ class or major was the best thing that ever, it taught me how to think and make decisions. Every decision you make has to have a very strategic reason why. I’ll give you an example. A couple of weeks ago, I had to go to the UPS to send some products that were going to Amazon and I had to do with that day and then I had to go somewhere else. But it was four o’clock. I said, OK, if I go to the mailbox first and if I come that way, I’m going to be stuck in traffic. But if I go to the UPS first, which making that left out of my street is going to be a nightmare. But to get to the mailbox, I’m going to guess the traffic. So I said I’m going to the UPS store first. So I went to the UPS store first. Now making that left took me five minutes to make that left because it was a lot of traffic coming out. The UPS store to the which about three to five miles. It was bumper to bumper traffic the whole way. So my trip took me about. Ten minutes to do had I gone the other way, it would have been an hour, hour and a half.


So I did a cost benefit analysis of whether I should go to the store for to go to the mailbox or

something ingrained in your DNA at this?

Oh, it is. It is. Everything I do is cost benefit analysis every now.

Well, I definitely appreciate you just coming on the show. I mean, that I feel like I should cut this show up into smaller segments and deliver it piece by piece over a period of time. Obviously, I’m going to drop the whole thing and and let people kind of take it all in and listen to it over and over again. Because, I mean, when I’m really thinking I’m recapping in my head all the different elements of the gifts that you gave today.I definitely appreciate it.

My pleasure. My pleasure. Definitely.

So that’s the end of that podcast. And then we would usually what I do is just kind of like the secondary spin off podcasts and I kind of flip the microphone to you. And obviously, I don’t even know what questions you would even have for me. Right? Yeah. But I always say, hey, you know, you never know. So it’s up to you just actually whatever you want to ask.

OK, cool. So it’s my turn to grill you now. Yes. So you’re doing a lot of things with local businesses and clients. So I’m getting back into that game. We’ve done a lot of grassroots things. Now we’re going to be doing a lot of paid traffic things as well on the grassroots. Stuff works amazingly well, but it takes work and it’s hard to automate grassroots. Is there anything that you’ve done on the marketing or paid side for finding local clients?

I think the biggest thing that I’ve done to find clients is making connections with them. And I know you understand that philosophy. So I’m not just gonna say like friendships, but when I’m sitting down with them, they know that I’m engaged and I’m giving them my all because I’m passionate about what I’m doing. And I think that’s given me the most return that I could possibly ever have versus the cells and the side cells and the cells. You kind of get sales going in there. But I have clients that I’ve been with for 10 years because I’ve been dedicated and I understand their business almost as good as they are.

Yeah. Do you focus in a particular niche or you doing different types of businesses with different types of businesses?

So I have one. It’s Dr. B, he’s actually his episode is Episode three. That’s coming up in a couple of weeks. And I’ve been dealing with them from the time they essentially started their medical practice, grew the medical practice, and they had inflation, deflation. And he’s kind of changed the values, the principles of his office. And now he’s kind of going to the space of becoming a brand. So given the opportunity that I’ve been with them for so long, that the opportunity to say, OK, I understand what you’re trying to do, let me help you get from point A to point B

in this question I kind of know the answer to, but I’d like to get different perspectives. Right. So when you’re talking with them, what do you feel? What are you finding they need? What’s the problem there? They’re really solving

and and for me, what I’ve seen, it’s the the wanting to deliver something and they’re getting excited about it. And then they start to try and then they automatically fail because they don’t have the line of the two points. They just think it’s just kind of like a like if I’m here and I just want to be in New York, I just pop up in New York. But there are steps that I have to get in my car, have to get in the parking lot. I have to go into the airport. I have to get a ticket. All those parts in the middle. Yeah, I lost in the translation and they just literally want to go from being in their living room and then being in a New York skyscraper the next day. And it’s kind of you have to kind of bring them back to Earth. A lot of times, like, OK, everything you’re doing is great. I’m not saying what you’re doing is wrong, but there’s a micro steps that are in between step and step B that you don’t even know exist at this point of it.

Yep. And are you finding the same thing that that I found is for me, the best clients were the ones that were doing something but doing it wrong?

Oh, definitely. I love clients that didn’t ask you to press the button, then ask you to do something and then you just give them a little bit inside and they’ll make the changes and even they’ll even bark back, but they’ll fight back. And I did some rituals. I did this and I love that because they take the extra step to understand what we do and who we are versus just making general statements about something they have no idea about.

Yeah, I’ll tell you, one of the things that we’re we’re doing as we relaunch our digital agency is if they are not marketing already and not taking them on, OK. And the reason is if they’re not marketing, there’s a reason why you’ve been in business three, four or five years and you aren’t spending any more marketing or doing any marketing activities, then you don’t believe in it. So now here I come. I’ve got to come and convince you to do something that you are doing for years. And then I find that’s always been too hard. So we’re going to have to people who are marketing, but then looking at what are they taking that customer to look at the page. There’s no headline on the page. The contact information is 50 pages down. And then I’m go to those people and say, I see you’re doing it. But, you know, if you did it this way, I bet you can double your results. And that person said, oh, really? Once you showed me so much as to get it to with someone who gets it versus someone does it. Now, in terms of people you’re working with, most of them just be to be or are they doing e-commerce and things like that.

So originally a hundred percent of my clients were B2B structure, OK? And I’m in that. I’m in the middle of that transition from going to one hundred percent B2B to more. So I would say individuals that are more entrepreneurial driven and they’re looking for the marketing strategies, they’re looking for the masterminds and they’re looking for these groups because for me it just kind of like going chasing at the clients is one thing. But if I can help somebody teach them how to fish . And for. There’s an unlimited amount of revenue that you can make from that and courses and online and like you say, subscriptions and all these other things come into play versus going after one client. Hopefully you close the deal for 10 to 20, 30 thousand dollars. Maybe even after that’s done, then you’re trying to maintain that client when they just spent twenty thirty thousand dollars. They may not want to pay you on a monthly basis to maintain and to keep guiding them down the road versus someone that is coming into a situation. They want to spend five hundred dollars a month or one hundred dollars a month, but you can scale that. Infinitely.

Yeah, and do you find that are they understanding the language yet, like I used to talk to people and say Autoresponder and they thought I was from Mars, you know, you say, you know, like what? Oh, what is that?

So I think in my case, I think a lot of them have a definition of it, but I wouldn’t say it’s a clear definition of it. I think they it’s kind of like commercial, right, that whatever they see on television, they get. But we also know that behind televisions, a lot of other things behind the scenes that we have no idea and and who’s pulling the puppet strings. And I think that’s the unfortunate side to them. So they may understand an autoresponder and then they may act with something crazy. Like what? I want to respond to do this and do that. And I’m like, well, that’s more of a responsibility of a CRM. Yeah. And then you have to kind of explain what is a CRM versus a autoresponder and how they do work together, but they get lost in the translation a lot.

Yeah, yeah. And how about for things like people who are doing e commerce, for example, if you run into any, um, or just regular business, would you find that are that are looking they want to actually sell online and take transactions and payments online. What’s the percentage of. Fine.

I would say buy one out of four. And usually when I get around those dial people, they’re already established to where they’re making money in the industry. It’s I’ve never had the opportunity. First hand to say, I started a brand new e-commerce store set for my own and to third party like I was a vendor for some other agencies, and these other agencies were like, hey, we need a website. OK, what kind of person do you need? And they will well, we need to be a shopping cart. What kind of shopping card do you need? What kind of products are you selling? And then we kind of just build that out. But it wasn’t directly to my leads. It was kind of a second hand. We don’t know how to do it. We need your help to get it done.

So when you do get that client. So you met with the client and I’m sure your it’s local or you’re doing national type clients,

I will say they’re all over the place. But the core ones that I work with our local

and you’re meeting with them one on one, face to face with each one,

I would say a small amount of them. Yes. Like the ones I’m not going to say that have been deemed value wise, but the ones that did have projects that are not a 30 day project, more so a 12 month project. I’m meeting with them on a regular basis to kind of keep them on track because a lot of ideas come into their mind and they want to go left and go right to you.

You’ve got that new client they sign, they send you the check. What then becomes the biggest headache for you?

After they sign the check? The biggest headache? That’s the interesting question. That’s a really interesting question. I think the biggest headache is not necessarily customer service, but it’s managing. The responsibility of the understanding of the timeline, a lot of clients, we would have a timeline designated and 30 days into the timeline, new features, new services will costly pop up. And you can do this all day, every day. But you’re talking about adding on an additional 60 days to road something that’s the biggest hurdle is just kind of delegating and let them understand that we can do this. But this needs to be done first. And I have one client is like that right now. I’m dealing with a website. OK, we need to focus on the website. Also, things will come, but we got to get this website knocked out. This is the pretty big website. We’ve got to get the website done. And then we’re like into podcasting, marketing. And I’m like, well, we don’t have a solid core yet. Like, yes, get the website done first.

Yeah, setting expectations was our biggest challenge. And so we’ve learned that we were we got to the point. We’re very clear. You’re getting X, you’re getting Y and you’re getting Z and you’re not getting A, B and C. So not only what you were getting, but also what is not included. And what we started doing that money could to change things for us, because in their mind, if you sell them a website, they’ve got an idea of what a website is in their mind. Yeah. And that website is ABCDE, X, Y, Z, that everything. But in your mind you’re like, no, website is X, Y, Z. And then when you give them X, Y, Z, which is exactly what you’re thinking about, and then they say, OK, that’s not what it was for me. So and feature creep was another way to get started selling everything out. And the other thing that we did, which is great, was as we spelled everything out, we put a price next to each and every aspect of it to optimize out one hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. So where do you see the future of the digital marketing agency going home now?

I love that question because and that’s why I think we had the mastermind group a couple of weeks ago and I was asking everybody as anybody in this space working on voice right now. Yeah. And you keep hearing voices, you keep seeing voice. And I think voice is much like how Google was when it first came out. Why don’t you search for anything? I could just, you know, look on a map. I could just go there. I could just call them. I could use the Yellow Pages. And it’s like, where the hell are all those items now? Completely fade to black? And I’m thinking that voice is the next big thing because it’s integrated into everything. And once you get to the point that we have a lazy society and they don’t want to have the time right now, you don’t want to do anything. You just want to wake up and things are being done for you in an automation side of things. So if you can then do voice commands and have things execute throughout your day on schedule, it’s Gomaa.

But is that for the end user or is that in terms of the business? How can a local attorney or some local business capitalize on that, make money?

Oh, my God. I mean, just think about it from the way I use them right now. So I wake up in the morning and I’ll tell her to good morning and tell her good morning. She’ll give me anything that I designated that I want, whether that’s news reports, whether that’s playing a podcast, whether that’s playing music. And then I can say, hey, take a note and then when I get in my car, it’s there as well. I haven’t touched anything. If I forgot my notebook. Oh, she forgot my laptop. Oh, I forgot my laptop. But this is kind of like the cloud ambience of me talking to this artificially intelligent being that’s not there, but there at all times. And it gives me opportunity to continuously move all my content and data, all my tasks, all my updates with me, no matter where I am. So think of it from a lawyer standpoint. If I’m a lawyer and I’m looking for documents, I have to physically look for documents when an already that this computer system could have a reference point. So all the documents and you could say, hey, I’m looking for Jane Doe, case number twenty five, pull me the intro, read it to me and you’re in your car. Pomi, the transcription from the court report to me, the transcription from the parking ticket

and what it’ll read it for you,

that’s what I’m saying. Is it the point now to where if you say her, you put notes in there, she’ll read every single thing on. So it gives you an opportunity to have you start really diving into space and developing in the code for that. So imagine if if Google opened up to where you can access your Google Drive docs through. Gouda. . It’s a whole nother thing. Imagine doing Excel spreadsheet while you driving, and it is not necessarily saying I want to go in column this I’m telling, hey, I need a script that will take everything in the first column added to the second column and end up in third column. That’s usually what Excel is Excel, as is usually the equations of different things, but if you can say it verbally and you’re driving, it is being done. Well, that’s a whole nother ball game. Have you have the accountants and CPAs and I know that’s what they do for eight hours is they dive into Excel. So if you have opportunity while you’re driving to work to have this Excel spreadsheet pre prep for you before you get there. It’s half the battle,

so imagine having, you know, marketing voice, it just knows how to execute marketing types, sent out this email, do this, do that nothing

and verbally follow up and such, you know, copy. So imagine having that system in place to where all these emails came in. This is what the algorithm is saying, that 20 percent of these people don’t like this. Then you say, hey, change this one headline, you verbally saying it and then resend the email and you just the command reset and she sends email. You don’t touch nothing.


I think we’re close. I think that’s that’s where one of us in this marketing space that we’re in, somebody is going to either wake up one day and say, OK, I love marketing, but I’m going to marry myself a developer team and we’re going to merge the two together. We’re going to come up with some kind of software, some kind of integration that does what marketers tend to do on the physical side through voice.

How about other platforms which Squarespace those types of sites? What are your thoughts on those?

I love him or hate him at the same time, because I’m a real big guy that believes with technology and change and following the trends, yeah, I still use WordPress for nine out of 10 of my sites, unless it’s like a Shopify store front, which obviously it’s designated for that build up. But I think the Wick’s platform is interesting. I had one client that had a shopping store built in Wick’s and I would just kind of like. It was so mind boggling, like, why the hell would you build a shopping cart in Wick’s and yes, you can customize it, but where’s all the attachments and integration’s and the APIs and things are there, but you don’t have full autonomy, full control over these environments and is more so going back to the lazy mentality of society today to where they want to click it to make it happen. And the costs are so much cheaper than hiring a consultant or hiring a web developer that they rather just pay monthly and deal with the support team of WEX and get some kind of results.

Yeah, I’ve looked at some of those platforms and wigs and Squarespace, I just find them challenging for a lot of different reasons. Part of is what you’re saying. The other part is, you know, you don’t own nothing. Yeah. If they want to shut you off or they have a deal as a tack, you’re screwed.

Yeah.And I think it’s the same thing with Shopify as well too. Right. Shopify is kind of it’s a standalone platform.

Not only that, here’s the other issue. A platform that most people don’t even realize Shopify sites are hosted on, I think one of only two or three IP addresses.

Yes, definitely. So that’s why

I guess what that means.All your data is easy to find your store. That’s number one. Secondly is there are tools that you can plug into that people can see your store is doing a million dollars a month. And guess what next person is going to do?They’re going to copy it,

copy a couple of products, copy to copy.

One hundred percent. So you build this wonderful site and everything. Although I love the fact that the deep integration. But you’re you’re also asking for an exposure that, you know, in marketing we always see until someone copies you. You have made it. So that’s expected already, let alone you’re the one now handing them the information on a silver platter.

Do you think that’s the same thing with Amazon?

So in Amazon, yes. No, they won’t know exactly what you’re doing, but it’s very easy to find a successful product. That’s also the reason why on Amazon, like an admin, I was going hired to handle some of our Amazon projects. She was going to do everything except submitting the products to Amazon. I was going to do that myself because my feeling was like, heck, I want her to log into the account and see everything. It would take her 20 minutes to duplicate one hundred percent of everything we’ve ever done. It’s just that easy.

So has that ever happened for hand?

Oh, yeah, I’ve had. So one of the things that you can do on Amazon is let’s say you’re selling this little widget here, right? Somebody can go into Amazon and they can click on this product and it says create a new listing. So their listing is the exact same as yours, same descriptions and everything, because it took everything from your listing and now what happens is you and that person are fighting for the big box cutter and usually that by box is price. So whoever is going to be the cheapest or has the most conversions, that’s where Amazon is going to show, because if it’s a Louis Vuitton purses only one Louis Vuitton purse. So Amazon doesn’t want fifteen thousand listings for Louis Vuitton purse thing, which is what some people will poach on your list and they’ll do that. And then they’re selling something else. They don’t have a Louis Vuitton purse. They have a Gucci purse. But that person’s coming. They’re looking for you. And then they find the Gucci purse in that. So people can do that. But with what we do, which is information marketing, the one or two times I’ve had someone try to do that, all I had to do is send a cease and desist. And I said, listen, I’m just letting you know my my content is and. In our product, we’ll have the name of our product. I’ll say that name is trademarked. And so you’ve got 48 hours to cease and desist. Otherwise, I’m going to let Amazon know you’re violating our copyrights and Amazon is serious about that. They’ll ban them forever. And I say I’d hate for you to lose your your your Amazon account over something that could be a mistake, instantly taken down. But if I was selling a widget like this wouldn’t happen, they would have laughed at me because I don’t own that widget, we’re all selling somebody else’s widget.

Got what I want to sell on it. Yeah.

So it can happen. I will tell you, for websites where we’ve sold e-books, I’ve had that happen like it was a sport. I had a guy who was an attorney who took one of our e-books and he was selling it on eBay, of all people. That attorney who knows better. Another example is a guy who took one of our products. He copied my sales letter and he had my testimonials were on his landing page. Hmm. Yeah. He actually put me out of business that day because he copied everything. And then he launched an affiliate program and had thousands of affiliates copying my exact ad word for it.

So isn’t that kind of like the dawn of PR? I mean, essentially, couldn’t you just convert it into that model to make that work for you, works against you?

So PR is you’re now giving people resale rights to your content. And I always say this. The people who sell and give license to their product are the ones who don’t know how to market it.

Got it.

So if they knew how to market and sell the product, they’d never give five thousand people a licensing. Right? Not for the price that they do, which is nine bucks, 10 bucks. That’s crazy. Yeah, like we’re working on an Internet marketing course and I might give rights to it, but it’ll be more like a thousand to two thousand


Yeah. And I’m going to, you know, it’s going to be real world value and it’s going to be the exact course I’m going to be selling as well. So it’s not like I spent two hours through something together together and said, OK, hey guys, give me 50 bucks to sell it. Now this is going to be high and course with a webinar with the whole sales funnel kit and caboodle as well.

Nice, nice, cool, cool, cool. I definitely appreciate you taking the time. And I mean, in a second podcast turned into a whole nother ball game in itself. Now was definitely good insight.

Cool. Cool.

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