Owner Of Angela Photography and Fine Art: Angela Murray AKA The Photography Boss – S2E60 (#88)

S2E60 Angela Murray.m4a – powered by Happy Scribe

You have some shadows around your glasses?

Yeah. I just reset up my lights and I changed the hanging from the ceiling now, so.

I need to bring them is more centered. I mean, glasses are hard because they’re reflective.

Yeah, I try to keep it pretty easy. The lights are right here, and I got to follow the lights in this room.

All right.

So you ready?

Yeah, I’m ready. Do it.

Three, two, one. Welcome back to Boss and Cage podcast. Today’s show is a pretty cool show. I’ve known Angela, probably. It’s been like, maybe 1516 years. We kind of all started out at our Institute of Atlanta. I met her way of Paul, which you guys heard in last season. So by default, you know, in that space, she’s a photographer, but she’s way more than just an average photographer. And I was just talking to her before the show started. And I was kind of like making a joke like, you’re not a triple threat.

You’re more like a quadrility trip. And what that really means is that she’s a photographer. She’s a mom. She’s also a painter. She’s also a woodworker, and she does the occasional modeling as well, too. So I don’t know how many levels of threats that is, but that’s a lot of threats. Let’s just jump into the tell people a little bit more about who you are.

Well, I think you threw out a lot of who I am right there, which seems like a lot. And I actually started as an actress. That’s probably a little known fact about me always wanted to act growing up. And it was during my acting period that someone saw me jumping on a bed at a casting. And just like that energy and said, hey, I need another model. Do you want to try modeling? And back then when you’re young, you’re not afraid. So you just kind of say yes to everything.

So I said yes. And from there, that photographer ended up becoming my mentor as we were on set. He taught me a lot about he said, Well, what are you thinking right now? I guess I had the blank face on. So that was not good. So I started asking him questions, like, what does that light meter do? And why do you put that reflector over there? And I really found over time that I wanted more creative, say, I didn’t want to be always just told what to do.

I wanted to take a little bit of the control back. And so that is when I went, I had already graduated from undergraduate from UGA. So then I went back to Art Institute, where I met so many people. It was a great networking experience, learning experience and got the basics of photography. I didn’t have the business of photography class, so that really I hear from some that would have been helpful, but I had to do the basics, and they just kind of throw you out there and you kind of sink or swim, right?

I don’t know if you had a different experience with that part.

Yeah, completely different. I don’t knock artists to Atlanta because it gave me my design principles, even though I came from a design background previously. But after graduation is when my real journey started in business development, business strategy. So all that came post graduation.

You don’t know, how do you actually get a client, you know how to design for them or to photograph for them. But you don’t know all the basics of how do you price things? How do you make an estimate and that kind of stuff? I thought it was a good base, but I either thought people had to do more on the business side or you kind of went to trial by fire, and I had, like, a trial by fire experience, but it was good.

So I think you kind of gave a little bit of your origin story, right. So you kind of found photography kind of through leadership. Right. So now that you have photography under your tool belt and you’re talking about your business, what does your business really look like? Because you have multiple different facets. But how did you work your photography side of the business?

So with photography, I came out really enjoying photographing, fashion and music. I have passion for music. My brother is a drummer. My ex husband was a musician, and so I wanted to do both those things. So I didn’t know how to get a job. But I looked at Music Midtown, the old Music Midtown before it came back, and I looked at who the publicist was. And it was Karen West, and I emailed her, and I had a little website. If we could see that website now, it would be a testament to how far it’s come, I hope.

But she actually checked out my website and gave me a shot. My first shot, actually, and said, Come out to Music Midtown, photograph whoever you want there. And I was lucky enough to photograph some bigger names. Snoop was probably one of the biggest names I got to photograph, and that led to the AJC calling and saying, we need some images from this. And Karen said, Well, I’m a photographer, so I was able to pick a couple of bands that I had photographed that I liked the images of and submit those.

And that actually led to working with those bands. Those bands reached out and said, we would love to have those images, and we would love to have you out to shoot something else of us. And so I worked that music angle. And in the meantime, I also photographed. I contacted magazines because I liked fashion, and I wanted to shoot fashion editorials. And let me tell you, when you’re young, you’ll do stuff for nothing. As you probably know, the seasoned people hate us. But I was able to get paid to photograph events for magazines.

And I remember actually a professor telling me, don’t get pigeonholed into events. But what I did at the event ended up happening naturally, is that it was a great networking tool, and people would come up and they would want their picture that I had taken of them. And somehow you meet people and they think because you can take a candidate of them that you can photograph their jewelry line or you can photograph their line of hands. So it’s not that I didn’t have a small bit of experience in school, but I went ahead and took those jobs.

And Meanwhile, I was trying to assist bigger photographers, and I ran into a bit of a wall with that. A lot of people didn’t want to hire a female. I know it sounds crazy, but we have to carry a good bit of equipment and sandbags. I’m pretty small as you can see. And some people didn’t think that I could carry what the other people could carry and actually did have one female photographer not hire me because she said, women cry too easily.

So.

I said, you know what? I’m going to just start shooting if people don’t want to hire me as an assistant. And I did have a few. I had Jason Ivany, who has a studio that I work out of the Ambient plus studio. He was nice enough to hire me. He thought that I was good on set with people and his subjects. And he said, sometimes you can get more out of them by talking to them. And he was more of an introvert. So he was like, you get my guys to stay longer and shoot longer.

So I’ll have you out and I would try to prove myself and carry all the standbags that the guys would carry. But in later years, I actually hire or, I guess, mentor a lot of female photographers or upcoming female photographers. And that’s the reason it’s an industry that can be very catty. And even sometimes the female photographers are afraid of you taking their work. So I feel like I could have gotten farther if other older photographers have given me more of a chance to assist and to learn more quickly of how they had gotten where they did.

And I think giving back to that next generation is pretty important.

So I think you alluded to something, right? I mean, obviously you dealt with sexism in a sense, for both male and female in that photography space, and you overcame those hurdles, and you kept pushing forward and pushing through. So what was the worst experience that you’ve experienced as a photographer? And I think you remember I asked Paul the same question, Paul way left. I’m just wondering, as a photographer, right? You probably deal with crazy things from nudity to probably random liquor. So what is the worst or the most intriguing experience you’ve experienced in photography?

Yeah. It’s hard to nail down one. But there were certain things in my industry that I felt I had to hide. For instance, I have three children, and I would hide each of my pregnancies as long as I could, because I actually had people say, oh, you have a kid, so you probably can’t travel with us on the road to tour, or, oh, she’s pregnant. So she may not show up. And I had actually photographed in New York with a company. And it was one of those times where I had the worst morning sickness.

So we were shooting, and I would be like, oh, I just need to use the restroom 1 minute, and I would go and throw up, and I would come back and they wouldn’t know, actually went to labor on set, and I hid that as well. But the second one, Paul, was there, actually, and the model was pregnant, too. It was for Pregnancy and Newborn magazine. She wanted to sit on the stool because she was, like, four and a half months pregnant, and she took my stool, and I said, Paul, I need my stool back.

I’m in labor. You got to get that thing for me. I have a bigger need for it. But as far as I went off to kind of on the female experience of working in my industry. But as far as crazy, there’s instances where this was obviously before the me, too stuff. It started with modeling. A lot of the soccers that came out as harassing models were photographers that were familiar to me.

So.

Unfortunately, I felt like a lot of the people that hired them, the magazines that hired them knew you kind of know what’s going on. And all of a sudden, me, too, came along and everybody jumped on the bandwagon. I was like, oh, no, we’re not going to hire him again. But we’ve been hiring him for 20 years knowing what he’s doing. So I was a bit disappointed with our industry that it took so long. There’s instances where we would be on set, and Paul would lean over to me and be like, you know, they keep asking you to party because they’re into you, like, this couple wants to take you with them.

And I was like, oh, yeah, I kind of got that. But I just really need to get the shot. So sometimes you have to just stay focused. There are times, and there’s been some celebrities that I felt like didn’t treat my assistance like they should. And so at the end of the shoot, when they say, oh, yeah, after the Grammys, you can come out to my studio and shoot me. Thank you. But no, thank you. So I think there’s a lot of ways you can treat people, and there’s a lot of craziness that does happen in my industry.

But really, to me, I’m always focused on the outcome of the photo shoot. I love to have fun on set. So if we can do that, that’s great. But I’ve been put into every instance of the art director saying to me before we go, hey, I’m really excited about this Ducks Unlimited shoe, which is for glasses and fashion. I’m a little worried for you being in there with the alligators, and I’m like, Wait, alligators. And then he’s like, yeah, I’m going to be in the boat, but you’re going to be in the Marsh with the alligators and actually have your assistant bring his gun.

And I was like, okay, I don’t know if I’m getting paid enough for some of this. I’ve had it all. I’ve had a model that had no bra to bring to her shoot. So all of a sudden, 34 B became my bra that we had to. So I said I envisioned myself shooting braless, but here I am. So it’s a little bit of everything. And celebrities I find can be great. They can be difficult. A lot of the D levels are some of the most difficult ones.

I don’t sometimes know who I’m even shooting, and they’re like, no, I’m not going to drink. I can’t drink that. Nasani. I only drink Fiji water. We have had those instances for sure. You can’t play certain people’s music because that artist doesn’t like it, or they have a risk going on. It’s definitely good to know history of that kind of thing.

You just listed off a lot of things that you had to overcome, right. So in overcoming these hurdles, do you think it’s a testament to your experience level, that understanding that these things may happen, or is it just a testament to who you are on a personal level?

I think it’s a testament to how bad I wanted to succeed, how much I enjoyed doing what I did and my drive to get there and reading. I just finished this book, The Year of yes, by Shonda Rhimes. And I’m in a period myself where I’m changing from photography to painting and woodworking. And I couldn’t believe that someone like Shonda Rhimes, who had two major shows already under her belt, had self esteem issues.

And.

I struggle with the same thing. I don’t know if you remember my message to you was like.

Well, I’m planning on bringing it up before the show was out. Yeah.

Can I bring someone else on? How about let’s spotlight Paul with let’s spotlight Kamani, who is in my industry. So sometimes taking the spotlight is hard for me. I’m now used to being more behind the camera and enjoying directing others. So just like a lot of creatives in my industry and people in general, I struggle with self confidence. And so when I was younger, I found the confidence in my ability to be a photographer. I knew I could make you look good. I knew that. And so I would push through any kind of personal self esteem issues because I knew I could get the job done.

So now Segwaying into other industries. That crisis of not having the confidence that I need has come up again. And I’m really encouraged, actually, that very successful women and people in general have dealt with that even after achieving a level of success. Actually, we went to talk that Annie Leeboitz did, and she was saying that she used to be afraid to ever say no to a job and that it would go to someone else. She will lose opportunities. She will lose her edge.

And.

I definitely had that, too. I kind of said yes to a lot of stuff, and it did end up opening a lot of doors for me. And now, through reading a lot of books, I’ve realized I need to learn how to say no and saying no is even harder. But it will get you to the next level. It can help get you to the next level and you gain self esteem. That’s a long answer to your question.

But it goes to the point, right? I mean, when I originally reached out to you, I was like, yeah, sure. And then literally, it was like, a couple of days before the show, and you were just kind of like, well, let me share the spotlight. And to your point, learning to say no. Like, if I was younger, I’d have been like, okay, and I’m like, hell no to the point to where we’ve been about maybe, like, 20 minutes into this episode. And you’ve delivered so many Nuggets.

You’ve delivered inspiration. You delivered woman empowerment. You’ve delivered like, just the struggles that you’ve overcame. What would it look like if somebody else is in this conversation right now, like, these Nuggets would have been missed. So just understanding that I think another thing that you talked about was about our hour seems to be pretty long, but we already, like, halfway through an hour already comfortable without even thinking about it. So I definitely commend you for pushing through and sticking to it, because again, I think you’re delivering valuable insight for other women that are listening to this podcast.

They’re a lot like you, in a sense, right. Whether it’s suffering from depression or whether it’s suffering from identity or whatever it is. To your point, everybody that’s successful has been through all these things multiple times, and it kind of showed the testament to you. I mean, you’ve been through multiple things, but you always come out on top. Thank you.

We’re working on that the next level. And that’s the thing I’m learning. It’s about a mindset like, to me, you have the right mindset. You have that confidence or you display it. You’ve worked on it, and that’s something that I envy and that I see that I want, too. It is you can get there. And there’s opportunities that I realized that I passed up even five years ago feeling like I was asked to do a Ted talk. And there wasn’t a lot of time, and I know and I felt, what can I tell these people?

I’m not really qualified to lead other people to success or to give them something meaningful. And I was wrong looking back on it, and it’s taken me a long time to deal with that. And there’s a question you have to ask yourself because looking at yourself is uncomfortable. It’s awkward for me to realize this about myself because I try not to put that out there when I’m on set. I don’t think people would ever think I’m uncomfortable or insecure. And so it’s kind of a question that I’m asking myself is, how long am I willing to feel uncomfortable for get to the next level, to get to where I want to be with painting and with woodworking.

And that’s something everyone every business owner has to ask themselves, because when you leave the corporate world, you’re kind of just pushed out there. And it is scary. You don’t have the security that you used to have in a corporate job with health insurance and 401K automatically there you have to do that all for yourself.

I think you brought another good point about being uncomfortable. And I talked about this on another episode before, but it’s a Jewish proverb about lobsters, and a lobster has to be uncomfortable in order for it to grow out of its shell. If it’s not uncomfortable, then it would never grow. So just grow in general. And the journey that you’re on, you’re growing. So you’re feeling uncomfortable. The second you stop feeling uncomfortable, you stop growing.

Yeah, exactly. Your complacent. You level off. And I feel that I had grown to a place of comfort with photography, and I had a group of clients I like to work with. It was easy. I was happy. I thought I was happy. My business wasn’t growing. It was just leveling off. And I was feeling a little bit burnt out. And then the pandemic hit and the clients that I had couldn’t even afford to pay their own bills, and we couldn’t do photo shoots. And so that made me realize I did three of you where I was.

Am I willing to be uncomfortable to move to the next level? So I’m wrestling with that now. But I think today is the first step in this interview.

Well, I appreciate being part of that journey, and definitely it’s kind of one of those things and people don’t realize, like, on social media, social media is a good and bad platform. For me. It’s a great platform because I’m always looking for people that I want to interview based upon their journeys. And for you, you’re living it. So from the outside looking in, I’m seeing all this progressing in this steps. I’m just like, I have to get her on the show because there is someone that’s 18 or 20 years old that may be looking to you as inspiration, but they don’t know your story.

So by delivering your story and telling these hurdles, that’s delivering so much insight to people. And it’s inspiring people. It’s inspiring me just hearing you tell the story. And I’m a male.

You.

Yeah.

It’s not just female to struggle with this. I think creative, passionate people, anybody who I don’t know if you get it from when you’re young, like, where do you get that mindset of where do you build your self esteem? I think it is. And for me, I want to do that with my children. Learn how to instill that from when they’re young, because I see a difference in people like my cousin, who from 24 years old, leaves investment banking and starts a cannabis company. And now it’s one of the largest cannabis companies in the country.

His mindset was always so confident, so confident that you’re kind of like, Whoa, this is too much. But I see the difference in how he believed in himself from the beginning and what he could achieve. And that led to achieving things early on in his career and at an early age. And if you can change that or you can build that with it in yourself early on, then the sky is the limit, no matter what your background, your color of your skin, who you are. I really believe that.

Yeah, definitely. I think you brought up another solid point. I mean, I had the opportunity to work with your cousin, so I understand that he is a boss in every aspect of the word because he knows exactly what he wants. He knows exactly what the vision is and to the point to where if that vision doesn’t come to fruition, he’s not. Hesitating on cutting the ties and moving on to the next step. And that’s part of understanding how to get to that next level. You don’t want to waste any time.

You would put capital into where you will build and develop. And if you get the results great. If you don’t, then you move on to the next step.

Absolutely.

So going into this like this, people, always the perception of success is always delivered in, like, instant success, 15 minutes of Fame. But the journey behind it is usually a 20 year process. How long did it take you to get to currently where you are right now?

So I would say it’s been about 16 years to get to where I am now.

I.

Probably had a good amount of success photography wise or from what the outside world perceived as success within five or six years. I didn’t make six figures until probably seven or eight years. Then I don’t know what people measure success by really, but I measure it by. I have certain goals that I’ve written down. I used to write down. I want to work with Usher, and then I would go and figure out how to work with that person, and I would hit a certain level of financial stability.

I’ve never been about money. I certainly didn’t follow photography for the money. However, you do realize when you have kids, especially that you have other people that you’re responsible for.

So.

There is a certain amount of financial success that you do need to take care of other people. And during that time, as you know, I went through a divorce and became a single parent of three. So it’s learning to balance that and keep going after your goals in the meantime.

So if you could do it all over again, is there one thing that you would want to do differently?

There’s probably a lot of things. Say yes to that Ted talk. No, I’m in it right now where I’m back at the point where I realize I need a mentor. And I think that if I had found a strong photography mentor early on, the path would have been a little different, maybe a little easier. Not that making things Rocky makes you a stronger person overall, right. But I would definitely advise for anybody doing it that they get a mentor. I did work for a bank while I was at Art Institute, and that was another place where people said, don’t get stuck working for the bank.

But I use the bank to meet my first clients. So I built up a client network while working there. And once I had enough clients to make the living, I left the bank. So I would really say being financially responsible. I saw a lot of my friends in our school that struggled with being financially responsible. As creatives. We want to throw it all in. We’re super passionate. We just want to create all the time, and the money will come is kind of what we think. But in order to go for the long goal and not just do this temporarily, you have to balance learning how to get clients and do the business side along with being a creative.

I would definitely say grab a mentor do not feel like a failure. If you have to do a side hustle. I know people that still do a side hustle and even reading a book recently was telling us that a lot of people made money to make art and not the other way around. And they first made money and then made art. So I’m not sure that I would go back to the corporate world. Now it’s kind of up in the air. But if you can do something that you can be stable and still go for your dreams, I don’t think that’s a bad way to go.

I mean, everyone’s different, right? Your path may have been very different. That’s the question I have for you. Different.

Got it. I’ll hold that question. So just remember to ask me that. I think you brought up some other solid points on this episode so far, so I want to kind of pull back a little bit, go back in the history of your life. You’re such a hustler. You have a hustler mentality, even though you don’t come off as a typical hustler. But you have these different facets of business. You have this understanding of business. You have some strategy behind you as well. Do you come from an entrepreneurial background?

Entrepreneurial family. We talked about your cousin, but is your dad your mom entrepreneurs as well.

So actually, both of my grandfathers were entrepreneurs, and on my dad’s side, he owned a hardware business in Buckhead, and I probably was too young to take as much from that as I should have. But it’s definitely on both sides of my grandfather. On my mother’s side was a medic in World War II, survived for years over there all the way to the Battle of the Bulge. So kind of watching Band of brothers. I’m realizing this is my grandfather, like he started in Africa and then Italy and Germany.

And then he came back and he started my mom grew up in a trailer, and she was teased growing up for being trailer trash. And my grandfather, when he came back from the war, he started a construction business and they moved a lot. So a trailer actually made sense for them. But he was able to build up, and he built parts of Duke and Chapel Hill. They were in North Carolina, and he died multi millionaire, but they lived a hard life, and he never lived like he had that.

But I don’t have that from. My mom died when I was young, and my dad was very much taught me how to save money and to be good with my money. I can live off of very little. But he didn’t teach me how to invest in my future and build wealth. It was almost like I grew up serving others, helping others. That mentality. It was almost like wealth was bad. And so my perspective was different on that. So it was easy to go after my passion and say, I’m probably not going to make a lot of money.

But then to realize that you have to we all have to take care of ourselves at a certain point that needs to be there. So I did have it around me, but not directly.

So obviously like to say, your pedibree, you come from a genome that understands how to hustle, even though it wasn’t direct generation, it was a generation back. So going into that, right. How do you juggle your work life with your family life, considering that you’ve seen that growing up? Obviously, your dad was teaching you how to save. What do you do with your family that allows you to kind of have the balance between all the things that you’re doing and family time.

You say you struggle probably with the same thing as a lot of single parents. All parents were working. People struggle with how to balance. And when I was young, I thought I can have it all. I can be the wife. I can be the mom. I can have a successful career. I can build my own business. But the truth of that is that something always has to give.

And.

I think we spend a lot of the rest of our lives trying to find that balance of how you put in enough time to your children and your family life and the things that really matter to you and still do something that you enjoy and that puts food on the table. So I’m still working on it. I’m not perfect. I’ve had times where I had to take time off to just be with the kids. I came out of a very volatile marriage. Rebuilding myself and them is kind of a process, right?

I don’t have the answers to all of it, but I will tell you, multitasking can be key. I do little things like I’m in the car going, so I have multiple changes of clothes in my car. I don’t need them as much during this time, but I’ll have my gym closed in case I can fit in a small workout. I have nail Polish in my car so that I can put on a pair of heels and paint that one toe that sticks out and then go right into the vent for Vogue, an inside secret right there inside behind the probably more than people wanted to know.

But I’m an excellent car changer. You may see me next to you in my bra to go to the next thing.

That’s funny. So obviously you have three kids and juggling. That right. Going into the next question, like, what is your morning routine? Your morning habits. What does that look like?

Morning habits? Well, I used to be one of those people who got up way earlier than my kids to get in a bit of work, and since I’ve hit 40, I’m a little more tired than I used to be. I used to be able to work late night and get up early morning and get some work before getting them up for school. So now I get up about 20 minutes before I get them up. And it depends. Actually, I live with my boyfriend now, and he has two kids.

So we actually have five kids in the house, and we have some on Zoom, and we have some at school depending on the day or the quarantine. So I try to get them started first. Like one of your other interviews. I have to have coffee. I never had to have coffee until I became a single parent, and now I feel like I need it.

And.

Lately I’ve been listening to Audible to some books on the way back from dropping them at school. I drink my coffee in the car or I listen to NPR. I listen to some other Am radio stations to kind of keep abreast of what’s going on in the world. And then every moment I can, I’m pretty much sitting in.

Work.

Depending on the day. If there’s no kids in the house, then I’m able to paint. I started woodworking and I kind of have a makeshift. I work on the back deck. I get some clamps out there, and I’m self taught as far as woodworking, it is something that again, my grandfather made venture, but not before he didn’t teach me before he passed away.

So.

If I can fit in a bit of word, working a bit of painting and then work on photography and getting back to clients and that I’m trying to do that. I have decided to try to put the phone away a lot when my kids are around. It’s hard because running your own business, you feel right. You feel like you always have to. You have to be there to any client. It might be no clients, especially working with celebrities. They want stuff at, like, 11:00 p.m. On a Saturday.

Oh, I need a copy of these pictures. They’re going to use them right then. In the past, I had a really hard time saying I’ll get them to you in the morning. I would literally go home and from whatever I was doing out dinner with friends and get on my computer and get them to them. Or now I have Dropbox.

Which.

I can read deliver images right to them. So I definitely make that more mobile. But I do want to focus on the kids when the kids are around. And it’s hard because some people are on their phone and the kids are on their phones just to socialize. But usually for us, it’s actually work. So it’s hard to say like Mommy is working. No, I swear, not technically. My buddy. Every day is different for me, especially in Segwaying, between going back and forth between photography and painting and woodworking.

But fitting in as much work as I can while they’re at school and then working on afterwards. I definitely have a better balance. Now, at the beginning of your career, you work like seven days a week, you work on a weekend, you work every moment you can. And I’m definitely facing that. Now, can I go back and do that again for another profession or how does that look now that the kids are older and they need me more? And my 16 year old, he’s a bit more self sufficient, which is nice.

I don’t know. What does your day look like? Oh, I’m not allowed to ask that yet, right.

She’s taking all these mental notes to ask you all these questions.

I am. I’m writing it down.

Yeah, she definitely should. I think one of the things that you brought up was like, the books. And I think you alluded to a book earlier. You brought up books again. Now that you understand why I asked that question, it’s like literally nine out of ten. People always fall into that trap of I’m reading a book. So because of that, I decided to create a book club.

Again.

What recommendations you have, what books are you currently reading and what books helped you get to where you are currently?

Yeah, I have a few that I’ve really enjoyed recently, and one of them is because I actually have said the starving artist quote before which now I wish I could take back after reading this book. And I think this one is good. It talks about everyone from Dr. Dre to Michelangelo, and it affirmed some things for me as far as like or even you in your career is like, okay, Michelangelo went from sculpting painting to being an architect to being a Foreman. And about every ten, it’s really a definition of Renaissance, right?

But he’s a Renaissance man. But about every ten years he actually changed what he did and then spent those years mastering that. Similarly with Dr. Dre. And kind of like you referenced my cousin. I see that he also had that ability to know when to start something up and when to walk away and move on to the next project that he wanted to do. And so he has his hands and so many things, and as a creative, we can have a mind to do. Oh, I want to try this, and I like this and the ability to do many things, but to learn how to focus that energy for business, to really what we need to do.

I really enjoy that book as well as how to overcome under earning. And that is the one that kind of went to your mindset. As far as it really makes you dig deep, you have to Journal. You literally feel like you’re in counseling, but you do realize some things about yourself and how to get to the next step in your career. So I would definitely recommend those two, along with the year of yes, by Shonda Rhymes, who doesn’t like her really.

Pretty much.

I know she is inspirational and relatable and real, and I appreciate that sometimes if you’re on social media, you wish you could just post like, My life is total crap right now.

And.

It looks great from the outside. But these are really the struggles that are going on. I almost feel like that would be more relatable and encouraging to others than just the glossy side, because I really don’t know anybody who only has a glossy side that didn’t overcome some adversity, whether in their past or currently to get to where they are.

That’s part of the reason why I created this podcast because it gives the opportunity to see the pros and the cons. And to your point as we’re talking, you’re going to have 50 questions for me. And those are questions are going to expose my weaknesses and my strengths as well. So this podcast in general is doing that. I post about it all the time on Facebook. But if you really listen to the episodes, you can hear someone’s journey. You can hear that this happened to them. They failed here.

They overcame it. They failed again. And that’s life to your point. Social media is kind of bullshit to a certain extent, but every positive is a negative behind the scenes, right?

I think knowing that is important just to remind yourself that it isn’t always that way for even the most successful people, the Sarah Blakeley’s of the World and Dr. Trays, it wasn’t always like that for them. I see in a lot of people that get there, though, there’s motivation and there’s fire, like they have a fire inside, right?

Definitely. What do you see yourself in 20 years from now?

Oh, my goodness in the world. And I really am looking for a sense of purpose as far as leaving a Mark on the world in a good way, whether that be to one, to make a difference in a few people’s lives or in a lot of people’s lives. I think I mentioned it in the email, but I love to collaborate with charities, and one of my favorite ones is by someone in my family. It’s called Refuge Coffee House, and it’s in Clarkston, Georgia, and it is the most diverse square mile in the country, and they hire refugees.

They train them, they give them English lessons if they need that, they pair them with a mentor for what they want to do next in life. And for me, I’ve had a few opportunities to work with different groups that I felt have helped people. I worked with the sex trafficking group, and I met some amazing people there. I did mentor someone probably one of the hardest times in my life when that person committed suicide.

And.

So I hope that later in life, I can still photograph. I can still paint and woodwork, but make a meaningful difference in other people’s lives. And I want to show my kids how to do that, right. Because it isn’t all about me all the time. It’s about others.

And.

I hope that’s what I’m doing, traveling a bit more like I said, but really finding a place of where I can work with others.

Yeah. I think it’s really cool that you’re working with the Clarkson community. I don’t know if you realize, but I graduated from Clarkson High School.

I didn’t know that. So you definitely know from personal experience, that area. It’s an amazing area. My an uncle lives down there, and it’s really growing and booming, but it really shows you where someone can come from. And it kind of reminds me that we’re a bunch of babies here in the US, literally. So having that just as a reminder is great. But yeah, so that’s kind of where I see myself. We don’t know if I’ll pick up any other things I did write when I was young, so maybe back to writing publication is a hell of a thing because I mean.

To my point, I never liked reading, I never were into writing. And then now I have seven published books. So it’s just kind of like, right? Yeah.

I was at one of your openings for the book, which was an amazing experience. That’s crazy that you came from, not even enjoying it to writing a book. I mean, I feel like you might have more to say than me.

No, I think everybody equally is born with the same principles and the same. It just comes down to when the day I would say it’s kind of like being in the Matrix. And once you wake up and you realize everyone is like, he’s starting to believe everyone is neo in their own right. And once you believe it, there’s no turning back. So just talking about tools a little bit like what software and tools. I mean, obviously, we know you use Photoshop because you’re photographer, but what software tools do you use that you wouldn’t be able to do what you do without.

To the point of multitasking. I have really been able to use apps on the phone, and one that I find really helpful is a one called Tiny Invoice and just kind of for all business owners. I get asked when I’m on go to send an estimate and what not or even to send an invoice. When someone says you get paid right now, you definitely go ahead and send the invoice very quickly.

So.

I loved having that as a tool to use. I used all the creative suite. Obviously. Let me think, as far as bookkeeping knowing Excel or using something that works for you that’s easy to use. I do not mind numbers to having worked at the bank, but I know a lot of creators don’t really want to focus on that. So anything like that, they can kind of throw the numbers in for you and be easy to use is definitely key. And also, of course, learning Instagram and all that stuff.

Right. So promoting the business as far as just really quick, you asked about how to balance. How do you balance everything? And there’s a photographer I really like himself. And she’s done a few documentaries, but one that I thought was her document generation. Well, it goes to the inside of how she has tried to balance being a photographer, a documentary filmmaker and being a mom. She interviewed her children and her 16 year old, and she’s been highly successful. And she struggled with guilt about making that balance.

And she asked her something like, what can I do differently as a parent? How could I change things to juggle my career, my drive and being there for you? And he says, Well, the damage is already done. And so that was really eye opening for me. Even afterwards, she took questions and her eleven year old son came up and was like pulling on her arm, pulling on her arm. She had brought him to the opening, and it’s like a minute. I think a lot of us that were really driven to succeed or really passionate.

We do really struggle with how to be there for them and how to achieve a level of satisfaction or happiness for ourselves. So I would suggest anybody that is struggling with that, maybe check out her documentary on that. It’s very eye opening.

I definitely want to check that out. I think that just rolls into words of wisdom. So let’s just say I’m a 20 year old and I’m a highly creative person, and I’m trying to figure out, like, my next moves, what words of wisdom would you give to me to inspire me to move forward.

Be moldable, teachable, looking for some mentors that you admire and that you are willing to work for, like, you’re willing to bring something to their set. And in exchange, they bring a lot to you. So I would definitely say, suck up as much knowledge as you can. And that young, 20 year old brain, it’s a great time to learn and to gain knowledge. I would say definitely number one thing is find mentors and maybe not even just one mentor, but multiple mentors.

And.

I always had the attitude. And this came actually from my dad is you never know who you’re going to meet. I used to be embarrassed by we would travel to New York, and my dad would talk to everyone in the plane. He would talk to everybody in the line. And I was like, oh, my goodness. As a teenager, this is humiliating.

And.

We were like, going to the stock exchange and someone yells out, Tim Murray, Timury, everywhere we go, someone knows my dad. And what I learned from that as an adult, actually, was that I found clients not on purpose, but on a plane, in a line, in the elevator. What do you do or ask something about their child? I find asking things about other people because actually, you are generally interested in other people and learning how other people are. It’s a great tool to your next. You never know, like, who that person is that’s going to hire you or that’s going to refer you to the next job.

I don’t know if you feel like that as well, but I think school, art school is a great place. And then the first places you go after that, building that network up, because when times are tough, you can go back to that network and say what you got.

I totally agree with you because I would not have this podcast if I didn’t have the Rolodex that I currently have. So it gives me opportunity to kind of look at it and be like, I worked here. I worked with this person or this person mentored me. Or I was at this workshop. I was at this webinar and collectively as you keep doing these things in every single webinar seminar, workshop, networking meeting. At least I walk away with one person’s information. So if you times that one per month times 20 years, it adds up pretty quickly, right.

And I think too, when you meet people like that, when you have the ability to get out of your comfort zone, maybe you are a natural extrovert. You learn about them in my industry. For photography, I learn about how to make my subjects comfortable. And just by networking, talking to people, you’re gathering all this knowledge up for how you are going to do your business, how you’re going to be better. So is this the part where I get to ask you a question.

Or five? You know what I mean? It doesn’t have to be scripted. So I’ll get back to my last question later. Go ahead and ask your question. Shoot what you got.

Well, I think we said earlier, what does your day look like as a parent? Because I always see I’m so impressed by all the experiences that you’ve created as a dad. I mean, you were on a farm, and I really think you’re doing a great job with that. So I’m curious of how you’re balancing and how you’re doing multiple creative industries and being apparent what that looks like today.

Believe it or not, this may sound kind of crazy, but I look at being a parent in much the same way. I look at business and everything to me needs to be systems. And obviously it’s organic in nature. I don’t want to force it, but I want it to be systematic. So to your point, when we go and do stuff, it’s not necessarily planned. I’m just kind of like, sometimes I’ll just wake up and be like, let’s go and let’s find something. So I’ll go on Facebook.

And before Kovan Facebook events was my best friend, because literally, the algorithm got to the point to where I had enough information. I could just pick something random. Like, I think one time we had an opportunity to go to, like, a bubble festival, and it was just like foam bubble in a field somewhere. It was just random. But because I went on Facebook, it was there. So we went and did it right. The farm you’re talking about, and we went on different farms at different times.

It was kind of like, let’s look at Aaron B and see what’s available. Oh, it’s a trailer on a farm.

Okay.

Sounds like a win. Let’s drive 4 hours and go to the farm. But because of the way my business is set up, it allows me to do a lot of remote things. So as long as I have WiFi or a cell phone, then we can do that. In addition to that, I’ve had the opportunity pretty much raising my son since he was a young age, that he was in golf. Now he’s a teenager is completely different when he was younger. If I was at a meeting, he was at a meeting.

If I was at a conference, he was at a conference. If I was in a webinar, he was at a webinar. So it’s to the point now to where I don’t think he 100% despises it, but I catch him at a certain time of the day watching Shark Tank, or he’s a hard gamer. But Shark Tank is something that he watches on a regular basis, and I could kind of hear him. They’re not going to give him the money. So he understands the principles. But now he’s at that adolescence age where he’s kind of like, he just wants to be with his friends and be in his game world.

But I’m hoping that when he is 18, 1920, it’s like that circle comes back around. And now I could be like, dude, I want to interview you on my show. I want the business ventures that you have going on. And how are you succeeding? And I can ask him the question, do you come from entrepreneur family? And his answer should be hell yes.

Right. And you planted those seeds from when he was young, which I think is going to be a huge advantage. One day it is going to come full circle, and he’s going to get all those experiences and use them and how he becomes a man, which is awesome.

I’m looking forward to it. The adolescent age is kind of like the weird age. It’s kind of like I was predetermined to understand this age group. So I was like, okay, between 14 to 1718 is going to be interesting. But once he turns 20 and he’s coming out of it, it’s like that’s the return. And it’s like, kind of like the father and son unite and take over the world together. That’s my hopes and dreams and aspirations. But again, I don’t want to influence him in that direction.

I wanted to kind of make his decisions on those roofs.

Absolutely. I think that’s a great dream. Does he know it or is it a secret?

Yeah. I’ve had the question before. Why am I creating this content? And I always say that life is parallel to existence for perpendicular time. And the only way an individual could live forever is you have to create a legacy. So that’s when I was like, okay, I need to create content. So 20 years, 50 years from now, my grandkids were able to look back at these moments, and everything I’m talking about is evergreen. So that’s the journey that I’m on right now, delivering this package of information for the generations to come.

That’s your way of making a Mark. Yeah. Love it. That’s great.

What are the questions you got? I’m used right now a lot.

I know what was the thing I was asking, how was your start? Different from mine? As far as you started out, I’m curious about that? Like, how you came from my journey? Yes, your journey.

So it was kind of like, the design is, I guess, genetically ingrained to me because I started off in New York. It’s just kind of doing graffiti drawing and notebooks and just, like, tagging up. So when I came to Atlanta, I got kidnapped by my parents, and I graduated from high school, and I didn’t know what the hell I was doing. And my parents told me in art school, and I was like, okay, this makes logical sense. I draw all the time. And then once I got into our school, I was like, oh, it’s Photoshop.

I could cut off people’s heads and do it. I thought, That’s cool. So I didn’t really think about the monetary side right away. I was just kind of, like, completely engulfed in the art, completely engulfed in the technology. And then shortly thereafter, I was like, there’s got to be more. So I became, like, a forever learner and didn’t realize it at that point in time. So I graduated with my first degree, which is graphic design. And then I was like, multimedia web design. What’s this? Then I got a degree in that.

And then I graduated. And then I came back and worked at the school. And I was kind of looking for I think I was working at what do we call the wormhole? So you kind of meet people that don’t understand. The wormhole was kind of like a print Bureau in our school, and we did print jobs, and we help people with their technologies throughout the school. And then from there, I went into the video and photography Department. And that’s kind of how I got hooked up with Paul and kind of came into you guys circle, and I fell in love with photography.

I fell in love with videography. And then I graduated around September 11. I was kind of like, what the hell is the world coming to? How do I monetize anything I learned. I was completely green. So I used my first degree, and I went to graphic design, and then that it was okay. But I was like, there’s got to be more. So then I jumped into multiple different things to your point. And then I realized that, oh, that’s what the problem was. I’m half analytical and I’m half creative.

Once I woke up once you realize that. And once I was like, okay, so now I need to understand the money. So I became an insurance agent. I got my series six, got into the market, got into stocks, got into growth strategy, marketing development. And then I put the two together. And then it was kind of like the dawn of the Boston Cage, because now I’m both sides into one unit. So that’s how my journey went. It was like people influenced me to be creative. And I am very creative.

But I’m also equally analytical, right?

Which is a great way to be. Honestly, at first I thought, oh, I am too financially minded to be as good creatively as I can be. But then I saw a lot of people who had so much talent creatively fail. You know, they couldn’t make the business work, they couldn’t communicate with their clients or their subjects. They couldn’t get what they needed out of them.

So.

It’S a great thing to be both.

Actually, once you realize it, once you come to terms with it, it’s about being personally acceptance of who you are and not trying to fight that. Like if I said, okay, I just want to be creative, and I ignored my analytical side. I don’t think I would have been aware of it. I’d have been a struggling artist trying to be 100% creative and not realizing that my real value is bringing both to the table.

Yeah, and ultimately being unhappy, even though people are like, oh, he’s creating, he’s creating. But you weren’t making it financially. You weren’t totally fulfilled or happy not bring table.

Did I facilitate all your questions?

I think you did for today. All right.

Got it. So just going back into, like, how can people get in contact with you? I think you also pretty much have an offer. Did you want to put out there for our listeners as well?

Yes, I do. If you are interested in headshots that are mainly I do headshots for 350, and I want to give $75 off to that. You can use the headshot however you like. It’s two different looks. You’ll get all usable images through your Dropbox and you’ll get two edited images to use. I don’t care if you throw your dog in there, your kids, your family, however you want to use that, it can be for your LinkedIn for work, for acting. I love meeting people. And if it’s your first time getting in front of the camera even better.

I’d love to work.

In contact. Do you have a website? I do.

Well, I thought I made it really easy for people. It’s angelafotography. Com. What I found out over the years is people struggle to spell photography, but now your phone autocorrects so you guys should be able to find me. And just Angela at angelaphotography. Com if you want to shoot me an email phone number 404-314-4789. So check it out. And I have Instagram Angela MPhoto and Angela Marie art if you’re interested in looking at the art side of things.

Definitely. So I definitely committed by the opportunity to check out her stuff and facilitate that dealership put on the table is a great offer. In addition to that, let’s just go into the bonus round, right? Bonus question.

Right.

So if you could spend 24 hours in a day with anyone dead or alive.

Who would it be and why you guys are probably going to laugh at me, but I would love to be with Nancy Reagan. Ronald Reagan my wife, I’m a child of the 80s. I grew up with Ronald Reagan, and whatever politics you fall inside of, I enjoyed seeing their relationship as she was his number one supporter. She was her own person and she championed her own causes. But they were a team. And I think whether you have a team, that’s your partner, the love of your life, your business partner, your assistant that you hire.

I feel like we can do more in our work and life as a team with somebody else. So I’m interested in how she found that for her life and still was able to do her own thing as well. So I do love their love story. It’s inspiring, especially after you’ve had a bit of trauma, Lovewise to have hope. But also she balanced kids and being the first lady and all of that and taking care of him in later years. So, yeah, I kind of admire her as a person.

Some people didn’t see her as strong because she stood by him. But I saw her as very strong because she chose to be there and she chose to help make him a great individual and a great President. He was a diplomat. Whether you agreed with his politics or not, he talked to people. He inspired people. He inspired the country. And, I mean, we have had a few presidents like that. And I’m hoping for more of that as we move forward. But, yeah, I kind of looked up to her as a woman when I was young.

Yeah, I think that’s a great answer. It’s an insightful answer. And you kind of giving people to kind of really think about it. Reagan was the era that a lot of people from the 80s grew up with and understanding his journey and the fact that he was an actor that became the President. And that’s not a novel feat in itself. So it’s definitely respectable.

He definitely had the mindset that I’m after that we need to grow for ourselves.

So going into the last question, what’s your most significant achievement today? And again, I’ve asked parents to this, and I always get the kids. So outside of the kids, what is your most significant achievement today?

It may seem small to some people.

But.

I’m proud of the way that I’ve grown personally and been able to have my own business doing something I love. It may seem small to some, but to me and to a lot of people, if you really ask somebody they want to do what they love, I hear from people all the time that you’re lucky to do something you’re passionate about. I mean, I am lucky. It’s very hard. It’s a mixed bag. But I feel that I’ve been able to support myself and my kids is somewhat of an accomplishment.

And when I started out, there wasn’t as many female photographers in our industry. And so I think that overcoming some of those obstacles and trials and not letting them beat you down. The stuff in life and stuff in your career is what I’m probably most proud of.

I think that you’ve had a hell of a journey, right? You’ve overcome so much that your modesty shines, right? I think you’re overly honest. But in what you just said, I think there’s people that are scared to step out. There’s people that are thinking about it. There are people that I’m going to do it, but you’ve done it. And just in the process of you doing it, you’ve made that accomplishment, and you’ve made it a reality for other people to understand that they can do it, too.

So I definitely commend you for that. And I wanted to also say, look, I remember when you first sent me a message an hour. Well, we’re at, like, an hour and 15 minutes right now. So you were so scared of that 1 hour, but you’ve blown past it beautifully, right? Without even thinking about it twice. And you delivered so much inspiration and so much insight. So I just want to say thank you for coming on the show.

Thank you for having me. Thank you for pushing me to take the spotlight and to say yes, I really appreciate that and something that has taught me and think we’ll teach others that struggle with doing those things that they’re most uncomfortable with about stepping out.

Yeah, right. That’s the end of the show. Man essay Grant over and out. It’s.