Publisher of the Life Masterpiece Journal: Charles Collins AKA The Craftsmanship Boss – S2E61 (#89)

S2E62 Charles Collins.m4a – powered by Happy Scribe

Start there. Three, two, one. Welcome back to Boston Cage podcast on today’s show. We have a unique individual, so I’m going to deem him the Crown craftsmanship boss. And you may think craftsmanship in the sense of woodworking and hands on crafts, but I’m going to go ahead and let Charles tell you a little bit more about who he is and what he does. How are you doing today, Charles?

I’m great this morning. Thank you very much for having me on your program and look forward to bringing your audience a new and unique perspective on craftsmanship. Great.

So let’s just talk about, like, if you could define yourself in three to five words. What three to five words would you choose to define yourself a craftsman of my own life?

That’s definitely interesting. So let’s dive into this craftsmanship thing. Obviously, I’ve deemed you to craft a ship, boss. I’ve done some research on what you do, so I want you to kind of tell our audience a little bit more of a definition of what you define as a craftsman.

What I defined as a craftsman came from decades of investigation and study. And the definition is one who is dedicated to the pursuit of excellence and developing one’s skills and one’s capabilities through incremental excellence, and that requires balance and process, so that the end result that you deliver is a work of such high quality that it speaks for itself.

I think that’s definitely like an homage to the standard craftsman, right? I mean, it’s all about the detailing, and it’s all about how the finished product comes to fruition and the steps that it takes to get there. So in your business, what steps are you taking to help people become Craftsmans of their life?

The first step was to give folks a framework by which they could understand craftsmanship as something far beyond the first definition that they normally relate to, that word that has something to do with a product that has been fashioned by hand, usually throughout all of human history. And I’m going back thousands of years now, craftsmanship has meant much more than things that were touched or fashioned when the human hand, the Greeks, the Japanese, the aspects of Mexico defined craftsmanship as excellence of execution at a very high level. And that had to do with everything it had to do with the way that you think it had to do with the way that you perform and do and work and the way that you actually live. So for a lot of people who have only come in to contact with the definition of craftsmanship in its simplest form, a product. The thing that I had to do was to create a place, an environment which is now the Life Masterpiece Journal, where people could go and understand that craftsmanship is a way of thinking, is a way of doing and is a way of living, and that in order to be able to apply craftsmanship to your own life in order to be the craftsperson of your own life. I had to give people a framework or a structure through which they could understand this at a deeper level and have an architecture to learn how to make a masterpiece of their own lives in the same way our trades, occupations and professions teach us that trade, occupation or profession. So what I fashioned was something that is very similar to the schooling, the training, whether it’s a trade school or University. It’s a similar idea that you go there and the body of knowledge of what you’re going to learn is put in front of you the stages of development that you’re going to go through to learn that is there for you to learn. And then the underlying principle of doing it with craftsmanship is also there, both in written articles and in audio articles which you’ve seen on the site so that people have a place to go and to take this on board rather than it just disappearing after our conversation is finished.

Great. So I think obviously this particular topic, I would definitely say it’s one of your passions. I can hear it when you’re defining it. You have everything articulated in such a fashion that I know you’ve done it 1000 times over. Well, let’s just time travel back a little bit. How did you get into this profession? Like, when did it start?

It did not start as a profession. It started as a challenge, and the challenge was put to be by a six year old young girl who pinned me against the wall in the kitchen one day and said, dad, what’s the purpose of my life? Wow. And if you’ve ever been there as a Guardian or a parent or an uncle or anything, you just start to either give them an answer that sounds cool or you start to say, Wait a minute. What do I really need to teach this young human being in terms of the breadth of skills and the foundation in order to deal with all the situations of life that are going to come before her in a skillful craftsmen, workmanlike manner rather than in a state of panic and meltdown. Right. And panic and meltdown comes when you do not understand the circumstance of the moment that you are in and you do not have the skill set to work through it in a step by step, well managed way. So when you don’t have that framework to deal with something, you melt down. When you do have that framework to deal with something, it becomes second nature. You just simply take care of the circumstance of situation. Move on to the next thing. Right. And that comes to training, skill and practice.

Yeah. I think we definitely share some commonalities. I think our terminologies are different based upon what our philosophies are, but much like I created Boston Cage, it was for me to create a legacy for my kids and for also other entrepreneurs to have documentation of different journeys so they can understand philosophies of business structures in Multifacets. So that’s what you’re doing. But you’re more so like you’re sculpting you’re doing it from an artist’s standpoint. And I definitely like the analogies and the terminology that you’re using because it is art. It is a form of art. And I think a lot of people don’t see it that way, but I think you’re giving people an opportunity to understand that business could be perceived as art. So I definitely commend you on terming things that way and presenting it that way is definitely fruitful.

Well, you know, I’m sorry. Go ahead.

No, I’m listening. Go ahead.

So the first thing that comes to people’s mind is they associate craftsmanship with as you just deemed it as art, but it is actually art and science. Craftsmanship requires science because craftsmanship by its fundamental nature, no matter what trade, crafts or profession you are in, requires that you have almost a molecular level knowledge of the material of the crafts that you’re going to be working in. You go deep. I don’t care if it’s wood or the law or medicine or podcasting and communications. You have to go deep into that material and understand all of its nuances and elements. If you are going to be able to skillfully manipulate that material with the tools of the trade and the craft, now, that’s universal. If we go back to the statement you just made about your journey and you use the words legacy and you use the words Journal and recording. Let me take you into traditional craftsmanship. In the fourth stage of craftsmanship, it starts with apprenticeship is stage one. Journey. Work is stage two. Master works is stage three, and mentorship is the final four stage the end game of mentorship in your trade craft and in your life craft is to leave a legacy of artifacts, tools and processes that are packaged in an elegant craftsman like way for the next generation to take up, learn from and build upon. So you just gave us in your work the absolute quintessential definition of the craftsmen, definitely.

I think just by listening to you speak, I mean, obviously you’re a motivational speaker. Your choice of words are very impactful to any listener, because I think that you kind of have, like, a philosopher mentality, but you’re delivering these steps very clearly and very elegantly. So let’s just talk about like that’s the positive side. Right. So any time you get into a space of coaching and helping someone, a lot of times, you may get some resistance. You may get some negative feedback with a particular it may be one out of ten. It may be one out of 20. What is your worst experience that you’ve had first hand dealing with coaching someone in becoming a craft?

Well, the first response to that is, I do not have a one on one coaching practice. I simply don’t. It’s not my particular calling, and I don’t have those circumstances. I raised a child that did it for me. That was plenty of one on one coaching because my child is still alive and well. She’s a young woman. She’s the crass woman of her own life. She has her own two year old baby who’s coming up and in a couple of years, her baby is going to pin her against the wall and say, mom, what’s the purpose of my life? However, that said, there have been people to your point, which the most difficult thing for those that are in that role who want you to craft their life for them, that becomes the most difficult, in my opinion, the most difficult thing. And this happens in business all the time. When we go into our the reason that this exists is it came out of me observing in great depth the trade, occupations and professions, our businesses, in our businesses. It’s the one area of our lives, our companies and what we do in those companies as craftsmen and craftsmen. And this is one area of our lives where the human species for thousands of years has gotten very deep into defining the body of knowledge that has to be learned the processes we’re going to apply to this particular company and trade how to manage the workshop, which is the company, right. So we have done an amazing job structuring this, but we never take that beautiful structure and process and skill out to the rest of our lives. So when you’re in the work environment, which most of us spend a great deal of our time in one of the most difficult elements, number one is for a manager of that workshop, a manager in that business to have to deal with a young journeyman or journey woman, or they could be a master, usually not, but journeyman or journeywoman who effectively is not been well trained and is basically asking you to take over for them and to direct them and give them to basically craft their own circumstance. And I think getting the message across to people, look, you are the craftsperson of your own life. You must take responsibility for building your skills and practice through incremental practice and excellence. And you must have the result of your work be the center of your pride. I’m not going to craft your life or your work for you. You have to do it on your own. So now here’s the framework within which to do it. If bosses don’t provide the framework in the workshop of their company, for these young craftsmen and crafts women to take responsibility for their work and put it forward. Pridefully, they’re going to carry a heavy load by carrying other people’s burdens in that company. Wow.

So let’s talk about companies for a minute. Since that was your last note that you ended on, how was your company structured? Is it an LLC.

An S Corp. Or a C Corp. My current company is an LLC. All this work that I’m doing, which is technically intellectual property. I’m making sure that even though I’m putting it out to the world as a product and the way that I’m monetizing, it is different than other approaches, mostly because I want to provide the content to the world because craftsmanship says you do quality work for yourself and then a true craftsman. To wear that label, you have to put that work out for the benefit of society at large. And if it impacts society in a positive way, then you can call yourself a craftsman or a craftswoman. If it doesn’t impact society in a positive way, you don’t have the right to wear that label. So in order to protect that, I’ve developed it as an LLC.

So I think one of the key things, as you said in how you monetize it. So if you don’t mind, let’s just talk about that. How are you monetizing your current deliverables.

The channel that I’m currently using, the channel that I’m going to continue to use is in the written articles, the written content. So two elements out of this work have been created as books, and those books are available on the Amazon platform. And there are people who are going and purchasing those books because they want the condensed version of my life masterpiece or the way of Craftsmanship. And so that’s one operational way to monetize intellectual property. The second way that I’m doing it is on a publishing platform called Medium. Com. And for those listeners that are not familiar with that, you become an article publisher. You can actually set up your own publication, and then you can put those works out and become part of their affiliate program and monetize your writings and your work through people reading it as members of medium. So that’s the second way that it’s being monetized. And now there’s a third way that we’re starting to think about, which is the possibility of merchandise associated with the ideas and the phrases and the focus of the work. Like Craftsmanship and My life is a masterpiece in the making those types of things that could be put on merchandise because people like having this reminder, seeing it on their phone or on their laptop cover or something. They like having those reminder things coming back. And so we’re looking at that now as a third channel got you.

Well, definitely insightful information. So let’s talk about the perception of the status quo status quo. Someone may see this podcast. They may hear you speaking, and it may be like, wow, this guy is very astute he knows his topic. He delivers it in such a fashion that I understand I comprehend, and I’m learning from him. But maybe they’ve never heard of you before. To them, maybe a perception of an overnight success. But in reality, this journey has taken a period of time. How long have you been on your journey to get you to where you currently are.

On this, specifically on the way of craftsmanship and life as a craft. 35 years. Wow. I didn’t put it out into the public domain 35 years ago. I’ve just begun putting it into the public domain in little bits and pieces. But now, in a more concerted effort through the good offices of podcast hosts like yourself, that I have a chance to speak with. Podcast hosts are great people because they’re very switched on, very engaged in what’s going on, want to learn and pull the information out of me. And that’s what really helps people understand the work. If people will come and see the work and come up against it, and they don’t have the background of this kind of a conversation, they will have to be very self starters to look at that and say, I’m going to go in deep and I’m going to go after it. Someone listening to this podcast, two human beings having a deeper conversation about what it went in to make that work. That might be a catalyst to take them over and say, I want to experience this work now firsthand. So the 35 years is me constantly working at it and thinking about it. But it’s relatively a recent release.

So if time travel was possible and you can go back 35 years anytime in that 35 year span, is there one thing that you would want to change if you could do it all over again?

Yeah. I think the one thing I’d love to change is that I would have had all of this knowledge back then and somebody would have dropped it on my desk at age 33 with my daughter pinned me against the wall in the kitchen, and I would have realized, gosh, this does not have to be trial and error or fly by seat of my pants life by terror encounter. There is actually a structure here that’s equally well put together as my trade as my occupation, my profession, and it has steps and it has processes and it has incremental excellence. I now have a framework by which to go forward and build my household, my family, our family wealth, our family management and relationships. All of those things would have had a context. Prior to that. It was like too many people. It’s like, I have no plan and I’m sticking to it.

Definitely very interesting. Obviously. I think that your season in the sense of understanding business, understanding structures you’re on this entrepreneurial journey. Did that come from any ancestors in your past? Is your mum, your dad? Any one of them entrepreneurs?

My dad? Oh, yeah. He was definitely an entrepreneur financially, very successful. I went on to build and sell multi million dollar companies myself. Several of them. I’m not on Forbes list of wealthiest 400 by any stretch of the imagination, but not only the spirit of the entrepreneur as to why you want to build something yourself and take it out, so to speak, as unrestricted as possible. But he did teach me the principles of the entrepreneurship in a structured format. His company was a business and industrial consultancy that would go into other companies and look at their business processes and literally realign and reengineer those processes for a smoother functioning. People are listening to this and know business processes, especially from the Toyota quality Systems and Kaizen and those types of things that’s the world that he worked in. So that’s the world that I learned got you.

So I would think that is a part of the journey, but it’s also part of your key to success. I mean, having that foresight from your father in those industries and being around him kind of helped you become who you are today. Is that a true statement?

Yeah. There’s no question about that. I say in the way of craftsmanship in the work and life as a craft, as presented, there are five key elements which create the framework or the structure of the knowledge that you need to manage in your lifetime. And they’re broken into five master categories. And the first category, element, one of five elements is called family and personal heritage. That’s element one and family and personal heritage has within it like a dozen or so subtopics family symbols, family tree and genealogy and family culture and history where you came from and what you are. The reason for this is that we the human being, which is the life, the craft that we’re building at the end of the day ourselves, that family heritage, where you came from, the family you came from, how it was managed, the values that they instilled upon you. That is the first master impression on the blueprint that is your life that they’re giving to you to work on as you start getting older. So from my father, just as probably from your parents and or family members extended potentially, however, that is, those are the things that start us and move us initially, and sometimes they’ll be very well structured examples, meaning those people were very good at what they did, and we now had a great mentor to teach us something. Or perhaps they were not very good at what they did, no matter what it was being a parent or work, and that could have had the impact there’s the story of the two brothers. One is a derelict and an addict, has an addiction, trouble and problems. And the other one is a surgeon and a doctor, very highly decorated, known in his craft, his trade. And when asked what had the impact on you for doing that, they both said Our father and their father was an alcoholic. And so the one brother who was an attic, he said, how did you expect that? I was going to turn out look at the model that I had and the other brother, who was the surgeon, said, how did you expect that I was going to turn out look at the model that I had. It’s a very good fellow, I’m saying, but that comes down from that, definitely.

So talking about just this family in general, how do you currently juggle your family life or your general life with your work life?

So at this stage, the good news is that I’m in the fourth phase of life as a craft. So I’m in the mentorship phase, which is age 65 to 85 and beyond. So at this phase in life, a lot of people will recognize that there’s more free time, especially if the young ones have now gone out and they’re building their own homes and workshops and having their own children and doing those types of things. So at this point, the amount of freedom that I have in my day to be able to pursue this and then go be a grandfather and whatnot is significantly more comfortable in terms of time. It’s not as comfortable when the baby’s getting heavier and older and I’m trying to pick a rough, but it’s much different than when I was a young journeyman 25 to 45, making my way in the world and having my family and my job was taking ten or eleven or 12 hours out of my day in which I only had a few hours to turn around and think. Now I have to be skilled at a parent or skilled at this other thing. And there wasn’t enough hours on that day. That was always a burden. That’s the endurance phase of life as a craft, age 25 to 45. That’s when you get the heat of the day and you’re back and you better be strong and you have to endure very nice.

So going into, like routines, I would think that you’re a very structured individual by the philosophy that you’re talking about. I think each one of these principles you have to be structured in nature to make these things effective. So what are your morning habits and your morning routines?

My morning routine is pretty much the same thing. Every day, there’s rising, there’s personal grooming, then breakfast with the wife, the family as might be. So those are fundamental things. Then there is the work day when I sit at my workbench first thing in the morning and on my workbench are going to be the day’s events. I use a task manager that has the tasks laid out for the day, which have been preset through planning. So planning obviously is critically important in craftsmanship, because if you don’t know what that destination is going to be and the end result that you are looking for in your business and your life, then you’ve got no plan and you’re sticking to it. Anything goes so simple. Task management, for me is after boiling everything down for years and years and years is the most effective way to move through my day and not too many tasks because you have to leave yourself time for what the craftsman call deep work. You need to be able to go in for more than half an hour. There are at least Pomodoro programs, which they try to get you away from your desk every 25 minutes and do different things. And that’s okay at different times and stages throughout your life. But I have to tell you that to achieve the level of internal flow when executing your work, that you become one with your work in time and in space, and you’re moving in a unified fashion. That’s when, as a craftsman or craftswoman, you’re achieving a state of art and you are just in the zone. Now you need time to get in the zone, and then you need to spend time in the zone. So a critical part of that day planning or that routine is to not allow the distractions of the world to interfere with you getting in the zone and being a craftsman and a craftsworm, because when you come out of that zone, I’m telling you, you’re richer for it.

Wow. So. Just based upon what you just said, it seems like you’re really big on intake. Obviously, I would think with the intake, there may be different values to that. There may be audiobooks, they may be books, they may be articles. So this question is posed to you because I have a book club. So I usually ask this question on three parts. First part is what books have you read to help you get to where you are? What books are you currently reading right now? And the third part is that what books have you particularly published yourself?

The books that I’ve read that have helped to get me to where I am in this particular work that I’m doing. Life as a craft were hundreds of books about makers. I’m talking about books, of how to build a stone wall, literally in which the tradesman is showing you illustrations of how to take a particular stone and lay it into the wall and interlock it with another one with no mortar and build that wall. And I would go into something as your audience is probably going, this guy’s what when you go deep into a craftsman or craftswoman’s work and their trade, you start to see the same universal principles of they know their material, they know their processes well, and they use their tools with skill to execute a finished product of high quality. So I read hundreds of books on trades by tradesmen and trades, women, textile, weavers, woodworkers, financial. I would read things by financial people about what they call financial craftsmanship. Believe it or not, they’re using these terms. So those are the books in the past that affected me the most. As I started to build this idea that life is a craft, the books that I’m currently reading now are more article based, individual pieces of articles that may have a snippet on it or about it, in which I can identify another explanation or an alternative way of words that end up describing the same fundamental principles of craftsmanship. So I’m always looking to in my current to test are these three simple phases of material process and practice, and the tools of the trade skillfully used. Are those still the universal principles that I find everywhere. And so far I’m finding it nothing has changed that framework yet. And the books that I’ve written are two. One is making a masterpiece of your life, the art and science of the way of craftsmanship and living that way. And that’s kind of like almost like a workshop manual. Here’s the five elements of the life, the trade of life. And here are the function and the elements within it. So it’s used as a reference, so to speak. And the second book was The Way of Craftsmanship, the Dow of the craftsman, and that takes the reader into a journey across seven different locations in the world. And there’s an audio version of this to talk and show how craftsmanship and its principles, even though by different names, is the same everywhere and always has been, and that all of us are craftsmen or craftswoman in something in our lives that we’ve done, that we had to study and practice. I don’t care. Was downhill skiing or was skateboarding or was your trade or your profession? Everyone has that if they understand and recognize it and then realize I can use that understanding to go learn something else. Wow.

So I think with those two books, right, they’re definitely taking what you’re doing until your point, you’re consolidating, right. And you’re building a legacy on your own by just creating these books and creating this environment. Where would you see yourself in your business 20 years from now?

I probably would have closed the workshop and turned off the lamp for the last time, and I probably would have walked up the Hill at the end of that 20 years and lifted off and left only a Lantern behind to light the way. Wow.

That brings me into, like, final words of wisdom. Right. And I think just starting off with that closing out with leaving a Lantern to lead the way. If I am just 18 or 35 or 60 years old and I’m listening to this podcast and I’m being inspired by your words, your insight. And I’m reaching out to you and I’m asking you, okay. I’m at a crossroad in my life in my career, and I want to become more of a craftsman. What insight would you deliver to me to keep me on that path?

First, recognize that you are the crafts person of your life, which kind of sounds like what you just said and that you wish to take responsibility for the way or pursuing craftsmanship and living the way of the craftsman or the craftswoman, so that acceptance of responsibility for becoming the craftsperson of your own life is that first step. So let’s say you’ve made that step. I wish to craft my life and make it a masterpiece. The second important critical step is you now must seek out your mentors, find those who teach the skills for the particular areas of life as a craft in order for you to apprentice. Because if you do not apprentice and learn the trade and then go on to practice that trade and incrementally improve your skills and use your tools of the trade skillfully, you will get nowhere. You are not following the way of craftsmanship. So if you wish to build a masterpiece, strap on that tool belt. Because making a masterpiece is not a simple thing, making a masterpiece takes skill. It takes commitment to turn a vision of yourself into a tangible result. And craftsmanship is about delivering a tangible result to the world in a work which speaks for itself that others in society will benefit from. If you achieve that, you can probably wear the label of craftsmen or craftswoman. Otherwise, you’re simply a skilled artisan. Definitely.

It’s kind of just listed to you. It’s kind of like kind of like Aristotle. To a certain extent, you’re delivering like these philosophies on a higher level. And people like, when you say something, you have to really stop and think about what you said. So I would commend anyone that’s listening to this particular episode. Certain times when Charles speaks, you’re going to have to stop it and rewind and listen to it two or three, maybe four or five, six times to actually not only articulate his action items that he’s delivering, but the comprehension and the direction he’s pointing you into. And I definitely appreciate your insights. So, I mean, how could people find you online? Like what’s? Your Facebook, your website?

Yes. Mylifemasterpiece. Com will drop them at the Lifemasterpiece Journal, which is my final work where all of the content is being accumulated. There they’ll find the articles there. They’ll find links to the audio collection they’re called podcasts, but they’re really not. They’re me delivering articles and so forth. Or if they want to go there directly, they can go to podcast mylifemasterpiece. Com if they just want to directly consume the audio version. Right.

Wonderful. So let’s get into some bonus questions.

Great.

And the particular question I’m going to ask you, I think you’re going to have a very unique answer. Fingers crossed, no pressure at all. If you could spend 24 hours with anyone dead or alive, uninterrupted for those 24 hours.

Who would it be and why it would be a master craftsman or craftswoman of their trade. They are Legion. They are invisible, and I identified and knew them because I came in contact with their work and their work drew me into their life. And I would spend the 24 hours simply in the presence of their work. Wow.

That’s something like to the point that I made earlier. It’s one of those things you have to kind of rewind and listen to it so many times to really get the in depth measure of what you’re trying to say. It’s crazy. I definitely appreciate that. So if you could be a superhero, who would it be? And why.

The farmer and I would be the farmer? Because they are a craftsman or craftswoman that deals with an organic material, just as you, the craft person of your own life, are dealing with your human being, your body and your inner human being that is your craft material. It’s organic. And that farmer has learned to be a steward and a curator of the ultimate organic material, which is the Earth.

So my last bonus question for you, what is your most significant achievement to date?

I am well on the way to making a masterpiece of my life and my child and her family have this work before them and available to them for now and going forward when I’ve left that lamp on the Hill and that I am confident that the work is available to the greater society at large so that they too, may benefit by it. So the achievement is I feel I can confidently call myself a craftsman. Wow. Definitely.

Well, I definitely appreciate all the insightful answers that you’ve delivered. This is the time in the podcast that I’ll give the microphone to you, and if you have any questions for me, this will be the time to do it.

Yeah. I think the question that I would ask you is on your journey. You’re making a masterpiece of your life, the work that you are doing, the extent of the work it’s prolific and what you are bringing to your audience. And I’m going to assume that you are in the journey work phase of life, which would be age 25 to 45. So as a journeyman, you are in the endurance phase, you’re in the building phase, you are establishing the foundation. So when you reach age 45 and cross into the masterworks phase of your life for the next 20 years and are literally delivering masterpieces and master plans. What have you got ready for yourself in the masterwork phase? Because the journey work you are doing is phenomenal.

I think that’s probably one of the most difficult questions I ever had because to your point, being on the journey phase versus the master phase, and I always deemed myself to be a lifelong journeyman that even while I become a master, I’m still going to be on a journey. And I know that I’m going to hit another fork because I’ve hit several Forks on my journey to get me to where I am like my boss and cage journey currently only started relatively about a year and a few months ago. But I’ve been on the journey of entrepreneurism and everything since about 2000. So being that this phase that I’ve just stepped into is probably the most prolific and the most impactful phase that I’ve ever been in my entire life. But I think it’s only the dawn of what I’m going to be able to achieve and do to your point once I cross over 45. So to answer your question directly, I want to commit to continuously journey. If that is the opportunity for me to continue on this journey, take the Forks as they come and create more insightful information and be able to deliver more to my audience and deliver more of a legacy to my family until my last breath.

Yeah, that’s the way of craftsmanship. I mean, that is the journey of craftsmanship. When you move into the masterworks phase of life, age 45 to 65 and you look over your shoulder at the work that you’re doing now in the journey work phase of your life, you are going to start crystallizing during that 20 year period, something very important to that phase and life as a craft. And I’ll leave you with that thought as to what’s waiting for you. Nice and what’s waiting for you is a task to be accomplished in the masterwork’s phase of life, which is the creation of your master’s Journal. And I’m not going to tell you what that is that’s for you to seek. Wow.

Well, Charles, I definitely appreciate everything you brought to the table today and just taking the time off your schedule to not only to be on my podcast, but to influence my listeners, but to also influence myself and motivate me and even give me some coaching indirectly, to kind of put me to where I’m going to be 20 years from now and the fact that you have that kind of foresight and that insight to even deliver that message, it comes from open arms and I embrace it. Thank you very much.

You’re most welcome. Essay. Thank you.

All right. Essay, Grant. Over and out it’s.